W.P.: Dan Snyder says he fired Vinny Cerrato for letting him hire Jim Zorn(M.E.T.)

[darrelgreenie]

Shanny inherited a bad team too so I'm not sure what your point is. At least Shanny improved it. Zorn would have done absolutely nothing with Griffin. It is silly to look at both situations and say that they are the some because of the record. Shanny has improved the team in every aspect and Zorn made the team worse and worse after a 6-2 start. The went 6-18 after that. Downward trend with Zorn and upward trend with Shanny. It is so not even close. Sorry. Also, I don't like the insinuation that RGIII is the only reason we were better this year. Of course he helped, but the whole idea is to get better players and improve the team. That's what Shanny is doing....I thought that was the whole point of the game. Better players make a better team.

Um Zorn also inherited a bad team held together by band-aides that fell apart. He had a worse team the Shanahan. And saying Zorn would have done nothing with Griffin is an empty statement and a slap in Griffin's face at the same time.
Also, Zorn did not make personnel decisions he didn't create a QB debacle. Zorn was coaching in as close to an untenable situation as it gets. Yet, with an offense that consisted of Levi Jones/Stephon Heyer, Moss, Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas and a QB most considered terrible he was able to eek out a decent passing offense. So if Zorn could coach up a QB most consider terrible then it stands to reason that he would have done okay with Griffin. (Griffin being one of the greatest QB prospects ever helps).

Look my intent isn't to compare Zorn to Shanahan which is where you seem to want to take this.
My point is simple. Blaming Zorn for his record while praising pre-Griffin Shanahan is hypocritical.
And it also falls for the blame shift laid out by Danny and Vinny.
Yeah, the failures of Burgundy and Gold past was all Zorn's fault.

[Stadium-Armory]

I saw someone on facebook today characterize this as more proof that Snyder's a clown. I don't see anything new here.

Snyder bashing is so 2010. NFC East Champs.

[elkabong82]

Old news. This was said the day Zorn was hired; that his and Cerrato's fates were tied together. Few GMs survive a bad head coaching hire. I think the only ones ranting/getting on a soapbox over this are still harboring an anti-Snyder agenda for whatever reason. As Stadium said.... whatever, NFC East champs

[Jumbo]

That's easy. Williams was, and is, a head case. Many knew it then; everyone knows it now. Williams assumed the job was his and didn't work for it. Pure hubris.

Some here diagnosed that, easily, along with Mr. Snyder not being the kind of guy with whom to overplay that card. GW has an interesting mix of achievement skills and self-defeating behaviors. He is in one of the better professions for his general personality.

[hail2skins]

Fassel actually got jilted twice by Snyder. First time was in 2004, when reportedly you had Fassel, Denny Green, and Ray Rhodes as the finalists. OK, but behind the scenes, Snyder was courting Gibbs, and if you had a chance to bring back the most beloved coach in Skins history, of course you are going to do it.

But what about 2008? I remember the annoucement was floated on a Saturday, and the story has been that Snyder backed away from the alter due to the negative fan reaction on the rumor.

I've always wondered what the true story really was, However, if the above was the case, then Dan has only himself to blame, for not having the stones to go with his initial pick.

And after the Zorn hire, Dan proudly announced that he had personally called Joe Gibbs (to somehow legitimize the pick to Redskins fans) and said "I think this guy can be a great head coach!!"

As for Dan learning lessons, I think the best one he's learned has been due to the first two years of Shanny. I think Snyder fully expected that Shanny was going to turn around things faster than he did (this season, mainly due to a dynamic guy nicknamed RG3) and hopefully has learned that even all star coaches need time to build a team.

As for Marty wanting to do everything, which GM/player personnel guy did Snyder bring in after he canned Marty? Oh that's right.......

[Destino]

While the quote doesn't paint Snyder in a good light it's nothing we didn't already know. Cerrato was is bad GM. Snyder is better when he lets competent professionals do their jobs while he mostly stays in the background. The same can be said for every owner, just ask the Cowboys.

[martytheman]

anyone remember the horny for Zorny thread here?
Everyone was so optimistic that he was the "fresh" new thing that would lead us to greatness...
I guess polishing a turd makes it look more appetizing before you eat it.

[Painkiller]

From the outside looking in, here is my take on several different aspects of the Redskins pre-Shanahan.

For me, the first mistake that I really recognized that was made was the letting go of Brad Johnson and bringing in Jeff George. Johnson might not have been Peyton Manning, but he was easily our best QB since Rypien, and we damn near made it to the NFC Championship in Johnson's final year. The Ravens also made the same mistake when they let Dilfer go, and brough in Elvis Grbac. Dilfer wasn't a "great" QB, but he was getting the job done and he had the support of the team. Johnson had the support of the Redskins, and George was a cancer.

Hiring Spurrier to replace Shottenheimer did not bother me as much as firing Shottenheimer did. The guy had the team on a roll, and I really believe we would have had some decent years with Marty had he been left alone. Whether or not he wanted to do it all....he was getting results. The team started out 0-5 and finished the year 8-8. What could have been had he been left alone?

and lets not act like hiring Spurrier and hiring Zorn are exactly the same thing, just because history has shown that their records were the same. Spurrier was a highly sought after college head coach, who everyone pretty much thought at the time was a sure fire hit at the NFL level. As we all know too well, that turned out to not be the case, but it wasn't just Snyder who believed that Spurrier would succeed at this level. Many other NFL executives and owners thought the guy would succeed at this level.

Zorn was a QB coach, who had never been an NFL coordinator much less a head coach. The guy was completely unqualified to be a head coach, and EVERYONE seemed to know that from the outset except Vinny Cerrato. Could we have caught lightning in a bottle with Zorn?...possibly but the odds were stocked against him from day one. The Redskins were an old team at that point, with paper thin depth. Zorn may have succeeded under different circumstances, but he never should have been given the chance to begin with. Blaming Snyder for taking a shot with a very succesful college head coach is not the same as Cerrato hiring a QB Coach with very limited coaching experience altogether.

[Murphs56]

I can only imagine what the Meetings were like between Snyder, Cerrato and Zorn. Those things must have been epic

[justice98]

I think he means schotty didn't have the personnel guy we have in Bruce Allen.

He still cleaned up the cap just as well though. And managed to not get us in trouble with the league in the process.

---------- Post added January-30th-2013 at 06:21 AM ----------

But Snyder seems to be passing the buck on that Zorn hiring.

Not to mention, what about the other 100 instances of ineptitude that could be pinned on Cerrato prior to Zorn? What's the implication, that if it weren't for Zorn, Cerrato'd still have a job? Snyder didn't see enough before then?

[sontupelo]

I'm still convinced that Zorn got the job by default. He was originally hired as OC and Blatche was promoted to DC and you're interviewing Mariucchi and Fassel and picking their staff for them. No experienced head coach is going to let the front office pick their staff for them.

[justice98]

I know its happened before. WCO systems.
Andy Reid went QB coach directly to HC.

I'm still surprised about the vitriol directed at Zorn as if everything that happened was his fault.
He inherited a poorly managed aging team, with an aging OL that fell apart and become terrible quickly, 1 good WR, a malcontent/insubordinate RB that started out hot and flamed out, coaching staff he didn't pick and a draft that was basically a wash-out. He produced the same record as Mike Shanahan prior to Robert Griffin.
All the while being undermined by his owner and GM.

---------- Post added January-29th-2013 at 07:40 PM ----------

Blaming Zorn is any easy for Snyder/Vinny to blame shift.

I agree, almost nobody could've succeeded under the conditions of the organization at that time. Almost didn't matter how good a coach Zorn was or wasn't.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Well, at least once we knew we weren't going to win during that era, there was plenty of comedic relief for entertainment purposes.

[dolver]

So just to keep my finger on the pulse here (as a fan who doesn't live in DC) - do a strong contingent of fans still hate Snyder? On a personal level?

Even when he was making all of these mistakes and even in the moment, I was still routing for him. He has always struck me as the kind of guy who truly cares about the Skins and tries his best to put a quality team on the field. Of course, he has struggled MIGHTILY with exactly how to do that and has made a great number of bonehead decisions. But I actually think it is a nice story arc, the one of Snyder coming in, brash and confident, but then learning and having to adapt until he finally understands how a football organization should be run and hires Allen and Shanny.

The guy was never set in his ways - he was always willing to adapt his strategy. He started by trying various player strategies himself and finally realized that he needed to hire experts for that. I would be surprised if Snyder doesn't start winning back fans quickly. Is he still vilified?

[SkinsFanMania]

That's easy. Williams was, and is, a head case. Many knew it then; everyone knows it now. Williams assumed the job was his and didn't work for it. Pure hubris.

He wanted Vinny fired and to start the season with Collins as qb, not JC.