Last edited by Mr. Sinister; January-30th-2013 at 10:58 AM.
As for Zorn.....just never made any sense. OC maybe....but head coach...nope.
And all of us fans are partially to blame for Snyder getting Zorn. This board and the radio talk shows blew up with fans enraged about the rumor that Jim Fassel was the next head coach. Fans hated the rumored choice.....which forced Snyder to look elsewhere....but by then it was too late....nothing else left to sign, except to promote Zorn.
"That's not enough rings," Griffin said. "We've got to get more."
"Alright, Sammy," Griffin said. "I'll see you later."
Last edited by VABlitz; January-30th-2013 at 12:09 PM.
Coincidentally, the first game I attended was the Rams game the year before. Another in classic list of Zorn era failures.
Last edited by Momma There Goes That Man; January-30th-2013 at 12:32 PM.
Zorn was bad but Williams could have been worse.
Zorn was bad, but he shouldn't take most of the blame from that cluster of a team. The blame falls mostly on the architects of that team, and Zorn had no hand in personnel decissions.
Now as how it all turned out, I am happy with how the Redskins organization is bring run now with Shanahan but I just have disagree with you on Zorn > Williams assessment.
"This is the business we've chosen"
Gibbs retiring created a bad situation that there was no easy answer for. Not having a guy at the head of the football organization that was not the head coach left a power vacuum that Snyder had little choice but to put Vinny in that spot, and Vinny wasn't ready for it.
Can people stop blaming Gibbs?
He left behind a 9-7 wildcard playoff team.
He left beind a team with STARTERS that were good enough to go 6-2 under ZORN AND CAMPBELL, TWO OF THE MOST INCOMPETENT PEOPLE AT THE TWO MOST IMPORTANT POSITIONS ON A TEAM - HEAD COACH AND QUARTERBACK
He left behind practically a FULL SLATE OF DRAFT PICKS.
How did he leave the team in shambles? He didn't! He left the team with the opportunity for success. Instead management from the owner on down completely destroyed everything!
How about blaming the front office for hiring Zorn? How about blaming the front office for keeping Cerrato? How about blaming the front office for wasting all of their ****ing picks!!!!
Some of the picks we could have taken and used!!! And before someone says some bull**** about hindsight, how about it's not our (fan) ****ing job to realize who is good at the time, it's the front offices who get paid millions to do this for a living!!!!
And remember, we were all clamoring for LINEMEN on both sides and RECEIVERS at the time so this isn't no ****ing rocket science!
It isn't like 31 other teams passed on these players who we had a chance to get depending on whether we traded down or not:
1st Round Tackles: Sam Baker, Duane Brown - Both good enough to START for playoff teams, so who the **** cares if Baker is no Chris Samuels?
2nd Round Receivers: Jordy Nelson, Eddie Royal, Desean Jackson - We wasted TWO of our THREE picks... THIRD pick we used on a TIGHT END we didn't need who turned out to be our best pick... Except as this season showed, we don't even need him to win!!!!!
And the bull**** goes on through the rest of the draft... In the NFL you either need good coaches or good players, or preferably BOTH. The front office failed us on BOTH fronts. NOT Gibbs.
It was Gibbs who drafted Jason Campbell. It was Gibbs who basically revealed that we were going to be drafting Campbell right before the draft. Even in hindsight, Jason was a fringe first rounder at best. He got his big armed quarterback who could throw it deep talent-wise, but he never scouted him enough to see if he would be willing to throw it deep. That was Gibbs. That wasn't Vinny or Dan. That was him.
Remember that Gibbs didn't want to draft Sean Taylor; he wanted Kellen Winslow. Our scouts had to beg Gibbs to draft Sean Taylor and had to convince him that Cooley could be just as good, and even then it took Portis' prodding to push that over the top.
It was Gibbs who was at the top of the organization when we let Ryan Clark walk and signed Adam Archuleta instead, which meant that we had to blow a high draft pick on another safety (LaRon) because of the gaping hole in our secondary. It was Gibbs who traded draft picks for aging veterans.
Coach Gibbs was an incredible football coach, an he motivated what was, to be be really honest, not that talented, to heights and a level that should've been damn near impossible. If Gibbs had a Scott Pioli or Ozzie Newsome or a genius general manager, we'd probably have a fourth Lombardi right now. But he didn't. He had Vinny. Gibbs was an incredible football coach, but he was not an effective personnel man. I think if you asked Coach that, he'd probably admit it straight up.
He decided to retire again at a really, really awkward time, when the best coaches were out of the running. And he left when the bottom was about to fall out on the team. All it took was one or two injuries to basically derail the 2008 season. Our depth was crap, our starters were old. We only had three good players at wide receiver, tight end and running back. Gibbs failed to get a complementary receiver for Moss while he was here. It was Gibbs who traded for Brandon Lloyd, Antwaan Randle El was Gibbs' guy.
That team was right on the ragged edge, and Gibbs leaving probably pushed it off the cliff. The 6-2 start was a mirage. When Gibbs was here, he was the decision maker. Vinny and Dan weren't going to force Gibbs to do anything he didn't want to do. So we got a short-term boost, and when Gibbs left we probably needed a rebuild. Something that fans around here were not exactly going to put up with after making the playoffs.
Now this doesn't absolve Vinny, because he was still a ****ing moron who wrote bad contracts, overpaid talent, and a good general manager talks their head coach out of boneheaded ideas. Vinny completely and utterly botched the 2008 draft, and his botching that draft negatively impacted our ability to draft in 2009. By then the team was old, the cap space was thin, the inmates were running the asylum. Vinny is not absolved of any of the wrongdoing he did, because he did a lot.
But so did Gibbs. The combo of Dan, Vinny and Gibbs someone how managed to find a way to cobble together a team that won some football games, but in so doing they exaggerated the talent level they had. Losing to the Seahawks in 2007 was about our ceiling. We weren't going to the Super Bowl. We weren't going to the Super Bowl in 2008 either. The 2009 season just toppled a house of cards that had been built by trying to win now and win fast.
Gibbs also traded a 3rd for Scott Brunell who was going to get released.
As a personal guy - Forget it. Not his strength. But if Gibbs had stayed another 2 years we probably would have made the playoffs at LEAST 1 more, if not 2 more times.
Gibbs needed a personnel man. Or, he needed someone like Bruce Allen who wasn't the personnel guy, but wrote the contracts and got our cap space right, and then basically..."forced" Gibbs to listen to his scouting department. Like now, Shanny has the final say, but he defers to Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown, he lets his scouts do their work, and then he makes his decisions accordingly. Gibbs and Vinny basically ignored the scouts outright.
The outcome would've basically been the same in a couple years. The organization needed a tear down and rebuild. Gibbs retiring was probably the best thing for the team; without him, the talent (or lack thereof) showed what it was.
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