BUZZFEE: Applebee's Server Gets Stiffed By Pastor Who Gave Her Tip To God, Promptly Gets Fired By Applebee's

[Larry]

For the folks who were pointing out to me that waiters don't make minimum wage, and therefore I'm required t pay them out of my own pocket:

1). Waiters are paid minimum wage. To do otherwise would be illegal. They simply have a lower minimum wage.

2). So, is that your criteria that determines when it becomes mandatory for me to pay employees more than their employer pays them? Minimum wage?

3). Suppose, tomorrow, Wal Mart announces that all of their employees are now "tipped employees", and will therefore be paid half of the minimum wage.

When they do that, does it then become mandatory for all Wal Mart customers to voluntarily pay 20% more than the cash register says, every time they shop there? If the customer doesn't do so, then is it the customer's fault that the employee is hungry?

[mistertim]

I delivered pizzas--Papa Johns and Dominos--for like five years while I was in school. I kept track of ALL the ****ty tippers; in a little address book with name, address and tip amount. I always wanted to start a website where people submit the info of ****ty tippers. Kinda like a way to put people on blast and shame them into tipping right. ****tytippers.com or something. Like I had serious discussions with a webpage developer about it but nothing came of it. Just wasn't sure how we could verify the info that people submitted

Its weird; I've known some people who are very good tippers when they're out at a restaurant or something but when it comes to tipping a pizza delivery person they suddenly get cheap. It doesn't seem malicious since they're not bad people, but it just seems like they don't really give them as much thought as service industry people as they do waiters, etc. Possibly because they don't see them except for when they arrive? Out of sight out of mind. In a restaurant you see your server busting his/her ass the whole time but you don't see the pizza delivery guy busting his ass to get all his orders to people on time, driving all over town, etc.

I've never delivered pizzas but I've had friends who did and I've been a waiter in the past so I always tip delivery folks well. I also learned that they have very good memories (or maybe write stuff down like you ), so they would remember me and when I ordered I would always get my food quickly and many times they would throw in an extra side or drink. Treat people well and show appreciation and respect for the work they do and service they provide to you and it comes back around.

[elkabong82]

Those two stun me. Especially the firemen. When I worked for a charity (well, it ended up being a fake charity, it at least a dishonest one, but that's another story) I found that firemen were reliably generous with their donations and volunteering. I frequently commented on it, because I was so impressed by the consistency of their generosity, despite not making a ton of money

The second...I have a 4 yo and a 1 yo. They make messes at restaurants (and at home). I always feel bad about it. It's not uncommon for me to apologize to wait staff for the mess, and I always throw in a little extra if there's a lot of food on the floor or something.

yeah, it surprised with the firefighter/emt folks too the first couple times.

As long as there was a good tip I never had a problem with a messy table. Messy little kids happen all the time, and parents want a break from it. It's when there is a poor tip that the mess becomes insult added to injury

[Stadium-Armory]

For the folks who were pointing out to me that waiters don't make minimum wage, and therefore I'm required t pay them out of my own pocket:

1). Waiters are paid minimum wage. To do otherwise would be illegal. They simply have a lower minimum wage.

2). So, is that your criteria that determines when it becomes mandatory for me to pay employees more than their employer pays them? Minimum wage?

3). Suppose, tomorrow, Wal Mart announces that all of their employees are now "tipped employees", and will therefore be paid half of the minimum wage.

When they do that, does it then become mandatory for all Wal Mart customers to voluntarily pay 20% more than the cash register says, every time they shop there? If the customer doesn't do so, then is it the customer's fault that the employee is hungry?

There is no 'lesser Federal minimum wage' although I'd grant you that its a debate over semantics. Either way, employers are allowed to pay them less because there is an expectation that they will be tipped if they provide good service. The difference is to be made up by the consumer based on the level of service. This is customary and you know it. There is no such expectation at Walmart because they make the 'normal' minimum wage or higher.

Add: http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires payment of at least the federal minimum wage to covered, nonexempt employees. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equals at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.
Some states have minimum wage laws specific to tipped employees. When an employee is subject to both the federal and state wage laws, the employee is entitled to the provisions which provides the greater benefits.

[elkabong82]

For the folks who were pointing out to me that waiters don't make minimum wage, and therefore I'm required t pay them out of my own pocket:

1). Waiters are paid minimum wage. To do otherwise would be illegal. They simply have a lower minimum wage.

2). So, is that your criteria that determines when it becomes mandatory for me to pay employees more than their employer pays them? Minimum wage?

3). Suppose, tomorrow, Wal Mart announces that all of their employees are now "tipped employees", and will therefore be paid half of the minimum wage.

When they do that, does it then become mandatory for all Wal Mart customers to voluntarily pay 20% more than the cash register says, every time they shop there? If the customer doesn't do so, then is it the customer's fault that the employee is hungry?

1. Waiter are paid $2-3 an hour to cover taxes on their tips. That's right, tips are taxed. Why? Because the tips are the income! Waiters don't make the normal minimum wage. Again, as has been said in here by several people, the tips are the income.You know there is a difference between normal minimum wage and min. wage for waiters. You are wasting time trying to make the two equal.

2. When a person works in a system where they are serving you and their income is based primarily off of tips, then it should be mandatory for you to tip. Your food costs less because the wait staff isn't paid a normal wage by the company.

3. Wal-mart cannot make all employees tipped employees because most don't provide a service where folks feel compelled to tip for a provided service. Under federal law, if a server doesn't make enough in tips to where they are averaging the normal minimum wage per hour, then the employer makes up the difference. So in Wal-mart's case they would likely be paying their employees minimum wage anyways. Waiters, however, actually provide a consistent service, whereas at Wal-mart you are doing the shopping yourself. Wal-mart has many different workers doing different things, and not all encounter customers, or deal with many customers, so again the tipping thing would not work there.

Everyone could not tip their waiters, and the restaurant would have to make up the difference so the waiter gets minimum wage. You know who would work a waiting job for minimum wage? Nobody that was any good at it. That job is tough and demanding and is not worth only minimum wage.

If you have issues with the tipping system, then try a restaurant like Ponderossa where it is a buffet and you get buffet-quality food, the waiters get paid minimum wage or just a bit above, you serve yourself, and your lucky if your drink gets refilled on time.

[Larry]

Yes, I'm quite aware of the law.

That's why I proposed a hypothetical, in which Wal Mart announced that, beginning tomorrow, all of their employees will be "tipped employees".

[codeorama]

Yes, I'm quite aware of the law.

That's why I proposed a hypothetical, in which Wal Mart announced that, beginning tomorrow, all of their employees will be "tipped employees".

If someone from Walmart followed you around and waited on you, then yes, you probably should tip them. If they just ring you up, then it's the same as waiting in line at 7-11 or Taco Bell.

Waiters are waiting on you, giving you what you want, bringing it out to you, refilling your drinks, checking on you. If they don't do well, then they get tipped less. If they do great then more. And yes, they get taxed on their expected tips.

You may not like the system, but that's what it is.

[Larry]

1. Waiter are paid $2-3 an hour to cover taxes on their tips.

Waiters are paid $2-3 an hour, because the law says that they have to be.

That's right, tips are taxed. Why? Because the tips are the income! Waiters don't make the normal minimum wage. Again, as has been said in here by several people, the tips are the income.You know there is a difference between normal minimum wage and min. wage for waiters. You are wasting time trying to make the two equal.

And you are wasting your time trying to claim I'm claiming something I'm not, and then lecturing me on the minimum wage law.

I have both waited tables, and managed restaurants.

2. When a person works in a system where they are serving you and their income is based primarily off of tips, then it should be mandatory for you to tip. Your food costs less because the wait staff isn't paid a normal wage by the company.

Ah, got it. I am obligated to pay a fee that nobody tells me about, when they quote me a price for my meal, because the employee's employer has chosen not to pay their employees.

3. Wal-mart cannot make all employees tipped employees because most don't provide a service where folks feel compelled to tip for a provided service.

I'm sorry. Gould you tell me where this rule you're quoting me comes from? The one that says that whether an employee is considered a tipped employee or not is based on whether "folks feel compelled" to tip them?

Under federal law, if a server doesn't make enough in tips to where they are averaging the normal minimum wage per hour, then the employer makes up the difference. So in Wal-mart's case they would likely be paying their employees minimum wage anyways.

Have I mentioned that I'm familiar with the law?

Waiters, however, actually provide a consistent service, whereas at Wal-mart you are doing the shopping yourself. Wal-mart has many different workers doing different things, and not all encounter customers, or deal with many customers, so again the tipping thing would not work there.

Everyone could not tip their waiters, and the restaurant would have to make up the difference so the waiter gets minimum wage. You know who would work a waiting job for minimum wage? Nobody that was any good at it. That job is tough and demanding and is not worth only minimum wage.

Ah, now we get into a different argument. The claim that I am obligated to pay a fee that isn't agreed on, because the waiter is entitled to more than minimum wage. (But I'm not obligated to supplement the income of other employees, in other professions. Just waiters.)

---------- Post added February-2nd-2013 at 07:01 PM ----------

If someone from Walmart followed you around and waited on you, then yes, you probably should tip them. If they just ring you up, then it's the same as waiting in line at 7-11 or Taco Bell.

Waiters are waiting on you, giving you what you want, bringing it out to you, refilling your drinks, checking on you. If they don't do well, then they get tipped less. If they do great then more. And yes, they get taxed on their expected tips.

You may not like the system, but that's what it is.

And mechanics fix my car, and waiters don't. Plumbers unclog toilets. Accountants account. Doctors dock.

I used to repair people's computers for them. Nobody felt obligated, when I told them that their bill was $56, to hand me $10 extra, over and above the bill.

Airline pilots fly jet aircraft, and almost always land them successfully. But when you fly to Denver, and the airline tells you that the ticket is $820, they don't mention that well, the airline doesn't pay their pilots, so you really should pay something extra, because you wouldn't want to be being unfair to your pilot, would you?

Other professions, you tell them what you want, they tell you how much it will cost, you agree, they do it, you pay what you were told to pay. The merchant collects the money, and pays the employees who did the work, according to the wages which have been negotiated for said employees.

[codeorama]

Waiters are paid $2-3 an hour, because the law says that they have to be.



And you are wasting your time trying to claim I'm claiming something I'm not, and then lecturing me on the minimum wage law.

I have both waited tables, and managed restaurants.



Ah, got it. I am obligated to pay a fee that nobody tells me about, when they quote me a price for my meal, because the employee's employer has chosen not to pay their employees.



I'm sorry. Gould you tell me where this rule you're quoting me comes from? The one that says that whether an employee is considered a tipped employee or not is based on whether "folks feel compelled" to tip them?



Have I mentioned that I'm familiar with the law?



Ah, now we get into a different argument. The claim that I am obligated to pay a fee that isn't agreed on, because the waiter is entitled to more than minimum wage. (But I'm not obligated to supplement the income of other employees, in other professions. Just waiters.)

---------- Post added February-2nd-2013 at 07:01 PM ----------



And mechanics fix my car, and waiters don't. Plumbers unclog toilets. Accountants account. Doctors dock.

I used to repair people's computers for them. Nobody felt obligated, when I told them that their bill was $56, to hand me $10 extra, over and above the bill.

Airline pilots fly jet aircraft, and almost always land them successfully. But when you fly to Denver, and the airline tells you that the ticket is $820, they don't mention that well, the airline doesn't pay their pilots, so you really should pay something extra, because you wouldn't want to be being unfair to your pilot, would you?

Other professions, you tell them what you want, they tell you how much it will cost, you agree, they do it, you pay what you were told to pay. The merchant collects the money, and pays the employees who did the work, according to the wages which have been negotiated for said employees.

I agree that we shouldn't have to tip. I'd much rather be given a price and pay it.
But, you are clearly smart enough to know that waiters are depending on tips and if you get good service and you stiff them because you think the price should be the price, then, well I won't resort to name calling.

Again, I agree that we shouldn't have to tip. But, I can't stiff a waiter/waitress knowing how it is.

[Stadium-Armory]

Other professions, you tell them what you want, they tell you how much it will cost, you agree, they do it, you pay what you were told to pay. The merchant collects the money, and pays the employees who did the work, according to the wages which have been negotiated for said employees.

^ That's all fine and good but it doesn't change the fact that this is not the model for waiters in a restaurant. As a consumer, I prefer this model because it allows me to decide how much they get paid. If they were paid a fixed wage, there would be less incentive to serve and I would have no control over how much to ultimately pay.

[Larry]

^ That's all fine and good but it doesn't change the fact that waiters are paid less because there is an expectation that most of their income will be derived from tips. As a consumer, I prefer this model because it allows me to decide how much they get paid. If they were paid a fixed wage, there wouldn't be an incentive to serve and I would have no control over how much to ultimately pay.

Agreed that there's an expectation.

But, there also needs to be an expectation that some people won't tip. That's part of the expectation, too.

Which is where I have the problem with the people piously announcing that "if you don't tip 15%, you're an ***hole", or "there should be a web site to publicly dump on people who don't tip",

Or announcing that what this waiter did, by attacking the customer, was deserved.

I don't object to tipping. (I'm a very generous tipper. Although I confess that I really began this lavish tipping because Mom was occasionally wetting herself, in restaurants, and I didn't want to get told not to come back.)

I object to the option that the tip is required. That it's an entitlement.

To me, a tip ought to be a reward for service that was at least above average.

[skinsfan_1215]

I'm not sure if Larry is trying to argue that our culture of tipping for the service industry is flawed... or bending over backward trying to justify himself being a crappy tipper.

They're paid $2/hr BECAUSE they're supposed to be tipped. Your food prices are lower because restaurants only have to pay their waiters $2/hr. If you don't tip or tip poorly, for any reason other than terrible service, you're just being an ******* to the person waiting on you who is working one of the lowest jobs on the ladder in our society- trying to get by or make something better for themselves. If you don't tip because you didn't perceive the service to be exceptional, you're not doing a thing but crapping on someone for being in their position.

Clarification- last paragraph was generalized, not meant specifically for Larry.

[Special K]

I can't believe this thread is this long and people are arguing hypotheticals relating to Walmart

[Larry]

I'm not sure if Larry is trying to argue that our culture of tipping for the service industry is flawed... or bending over backward trying to justify himself being a crappy tipper.

Well, perhaps if you were to read my posts, it might alleviate your confusion.

[elkabong82]

Yes, I'm quite aware of the law.

That's why I proposed a hypothetical, in which Wal Mart announced that, beginning tomorrow, all of their employees will be "tipped employees".

And I clearly explained why that wouldn't work. Say the cashiers get tipped. Ok, they see a ton of customers. What about the stock people or the ones working in back, or any other employee who doesn't deal with customers all that often? The employees aren't really providing tippable service.