How Is Bruce Allen as a Talent Evaluator?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I see Danny and Jerry Jones as very similar guys. They really want to be the guy that makes the genius move that puts his team over the top.

The difference between Danny and Jerry is that Jerry actually is the GM. Danny has never given himself that title and actually makes a conscience effort to avoid appearing to influence personnel decisions, even though it is obvious he has had a hand in it at times.

[21cents]

Redskins have always been pretty good at drafting players. Only problems we never really had many draft picks because we would trade them away for high priced players.

[JMS]

Redskins have always been pretty good at drafting players. Only problems we never really had many draft picks because we would trade them away for high priced players.

That's the knock on the Skins in the 60's, 70's, and 80's... Since the 1990's when we lost Bobby Beathard who was great at getting players in lower rounds and had a preclivity for trading away our high picks for mulitple lower picks, we've been keeping our #1 picks mostly and mostly picking poorly..... I think we have been horrible at drafting players... it's only in the last 4 maybe 2 years which we've caught a break with our #1's... And seriously... next year we might substantially down grade that evaluation...

2012 - Robert Griffin
2011 - Ryan Kerrigan
2010 - Trent Williams ( one Doobie away from a year suspension)
2009 - Brian Orakpo ( injury plagued career.. left pectoral muscle gave out again 8 months after it had just been operated on... could be done. )
2008 - N/A
2007 - LaRon Landry - Bust
2006 - N/A
2005 - Carlos Rogers ( hands of stone), Jason Campbell - Not the guy
2004 - Sean Taylor
2003 - N/A
2002 - Patrick Ramsey - bust
2001- Rod Gardner - Mr. 50-50... bust
2000 - LaVar Arrington, Chris Samuels
1999 - Champ Bailey
1998 - Stephen Alexander
1997 - Kenard Lang - ( turned into a pretty good player... For the Browns)
1996 - Andre Johnson
1995 - Michael Westbrook ( head case... bust)
1994 - Heath Shuler ( bust)
1993 - Tom Carter DB ( average)
1992 - Desmond Howard ( super bowl MVP... for the Raiders as a kick returner.. bust )
1991 - Bobby Wilson DT ( bust)
1990 - N/A
1989 - N/A
1988 - N/A
1987 - N/A
1986 - N/A
1985 - N/A
1984 - N/A
1983 - Darrell Green ( HoF)
1982 - N/A
1981 - Mark May
1980 - Art Monk ( HoF)
1979 - N/A
1978 - N/A
1977 - N/A
1976 - N/A
1975 - N/A
1974 - N/A
1973 - N/A
1972 - N/A
1971 - N/A
1970 - N/A
1969 - N/A
1968 - Jerry Smith

[NLC1054]

The difference between Danny and Jerry is that Jerry actually is the GM. Danny has never given himself that title and actually makes a conscience effort to avoid appearing to influence personnel decisions, even though it is obvious he has had a hand in it at times.

And when it was clear that the way he was doing things wasn't working, Dan handed the football stuff to the football people.

Jerry Jones is under the delusion he's a great talent evaluator. He's not. At all.

[JMS]

And when it was clear that the way he was doing things wasn't working, Dan handed the football stuff to the football people.

Jerry Jones is under the delusion he's a great talent evaluator. He's not. At all.

Dan is worse... Dan is OCD..

He's incapable of not having his fingers in everything which is going on across the organization. Remember when he took over the Skins he was making hiring and firing decisions with receptionists and secretaries... That's OCD... I remember hearing a story about him Calling up Gibbs during the season at 2am telling him to come right over to the house for a meeting... Gibb's wife answered and told him she wasn't waking Joe, and to never call their house after 8pm again.

The only thing which has ever controlled Dan is having a big name coach who has a contract which allowed that coach to tell Dan to butt out. Shananagan doesn't have that contract like Marty did... Shananagan like Gibbs before him is trying to make Dan "part of the process"... He get's a vote but it only counts (1) along with the scouts, position coaches, coordinators, and head coach of coarse... Not sure Bruce even gets a vote, like Vinnie did under Gibbs..

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Dan is worse... Dan is OCD..

He's incapable of not having his fingers in everything which is going on across the organization. Remember when he took over the Skins he was making hiring and firing decisions with receptionists and secretaries... That's OCD... I remember hearing a story about him Calling up Gibbs during the season at 2am telling him to come right over to the house for a meeting... Gibb's wife answered and told him she wasn't waking Joe, and to never call their house after 8pm again.

The only thing which has ever controlled Dan is having a big name coach who has a contract which allowed that coach to tell Dan to butt out. Shananagan doesn't have that contract like Marty did... Shananagan like Gibbs before him is trying to make Dan "part of the process"... He get's a vote but it only counts (1) along with the scouts, position coaches, coordinators, and head coach of coarse... Not sure Bruce even gets a vote, like Vinnie did under Gibbs..

Dan is worse than Jones because he's been an owner for less time yet has learned earlier to hand over football operations to others? Interesting. I also don't know if I'd call him OCD since that's a real disorder that impacts real people.

[Riggo-toni]

JMS- Shanny's contract specifically states that he has final say over all personnel matters.
Since taking over, Snyder has continued following the exact same pattern in regards to coaches/personnel. He takes a chance with an unproven offensive coach, meddles at the first sign of trouble (as you said, OCD). That coach fails, and everyone blasts Snyder for interfering. Then he hires a name coach and hands over complete control. Everyone says "oh,no he's finally learning; he's handed it over to football guys. That coach eventually falls short of expectations, and gets replaced with an unproven offensive guru.....
Robiskie to Schotferbrains
Spurrier to Gibbs
Zorn to Shanny

[Warhead36]

All I know is, since Allen left the Raiders and Bucs, they have not returned to the playoffs.

On the flip side, we went from being league joke to division champions in three years.

[Riggo-toni]

If you think Cerrato was awful (he was), then you should take a look at Allen's drafts in Tampa Bay. Makes Vincenzo look like a freakin' genius.

[NLC1054]

The only thing which has ever controlled Dan is having a big name coach who has a contract which allowed that coach to tell Dan to butt out. Shananagan doesn't have that contract like Marty did... Shananagan like Gibbs before him is trying to make Dan "part of the process"... He get's a vote but it only counts (1) along with the scouts, position coaches, coordinators, and head coach of coarse... Not sure Bruce even gets a vote, like Vinnie did under Gibbs..

Dan's not part of the process. The first thing Bruce told Dan when he got hired was to stay away from the park. Dan Snyder doesn't even have an office at Redskins Park anymore, last time I checked. Mike Shanahan's contract gives him total autonomy over the personnel decisions and Bruce is in charge of the contracts. Dan stays away and let's the football people do the football stuff.

It's all anyone's ever asked of him and it's finally starting to pay off.

---------- Post added February-7th-2013 at 02:34 PM ----------

Meanwhile, Jerry Jones is involved in EVERY LAST ASPECT of his football team. Contracts, players,, coaches, stadium, friggin' EVERYTHING. The only time Jerry Jones ever has a good team is when he steps back and let's someone smarter than him take the reigns (Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells). Then his ego takes over and he goes out and hires another limp wristed coach, makes bad signing, trades and draft picks, the team sucks again, and that's that.

---------- Post added February-7th-2013 at 02:35 PM ----------

If you think Cerrato was awful (he was), then you should take a look at Allen's drafts in Tampa Bay. Makes Vincenzo look like a freakin' genius.

Bruce has never been the personnel guy though. Those were Gruden's drafts more than anything else.

[pjfootballer]

Dan is worse... Dan is OCD..

He's incapable of not having his fingers in everything which is going on across the organization. Remember when he took over the Skins he was making hiring and firing decisions with receptionists and secretaries... That's OCD... I remember hearing a story about him Calling up Gibbs during the season at 2am telling him to come right over to the house for a meeting... Gibb's wife answered and told him she wasn't waking Joe, and to never call their house after 8pm again.

The only thing which has ever controlled Dan is having a big name coach who has a contract which allowed that coach to tell Dan to butt out. Shananagan doesn't have that contract like Marty did... Shananagan like Gibbs before him is trying to make Dan "part of the process"... He get's a vote but it only counts (1) along with the scouts, position coaches, coordinators, and head coach of coarse... Not sure Bruce even gets a vote, like Vinnie did under Gibbs..

Ok, so Jerrah didn't fire perhaps the best coach in Cowboys history like he was a piece of garbage and then clean house in Valley Ranch of all the Landry era? You are not only fooling yourself, you don't know much about went on in Dallass. Jones was about to meet a lynch mob when Landry and most of his staff were fired.

[JMS]

Dan is worse than Jones because he's been an owner for less time yet has learned earlier to hand over football operations to others? Interesting. I also don't know if I'd call him OCD since that's a real disorder that impacts real people.

Dan is worse than Jones because he's OCD. He doesn't have the attention span to make informed decisions, and doesn't have the discipline to leave decisions to the people he hires to advise him.

Look he inherited the 1999 Division Champion's and one of his first moves as owner was to fire that division winning head coach in the middle of the 2000 season...

The only coach in Dan Snyder's ten-yer not to have a loosing record... Marty Shotenhiemer fired after one season... a season he lost his first five games, and won his next five... Which says if Dan Snyder had been the Skins own in 1981, he would have fired Joe Gibbs after going 0-5 then 5-0.

How many franchise savior, hail marry candidates have Skins Fan's been forced to endure? There is basically one for every off season Dan's been here..

Albert Haynesworth (100 million dollar contract, 40 guaranteed)
Jeff George ( turned down one year $400k from Vikes where he was a starter, to sign with the skins for 12 million over 4 years to be a backup.. way to go Dan, let go after posting 34 passer rating on monday night against the Packers in a 37-0 shutout ).
Bruce Smith
Mark Brunell
Jim Zorn
Steve Spurior
Adam Archuleta
Deon Sanders
Patric Ramsey
Vinny Cerrato

I can't even remember them all..... After 12 seasons we can see, these aren't aberrations.. it's his management style. Don't listen to anybody.. swing for the fences hope for the best... And that's really all we have as Redskins Fans... Hope every year as the franchise which once was a powerhouse had become the NFC East's answer to the Cleveland Browns. Yeah RGB looks great,, and I sure hope he recovers from that season ending injury where he was limping away from defenders trying to tear his head off. Sure HOPE he survives long enough to win a play-off game or two.. and if he doesn't I'm sure we will have another savior brought in... I mean if history is any track record.

---------- Post added February-8th-2013 at 11:06 AM ----------

Ok, so Jerrah didn't fire perhaps the best coach in Cowboys history like he was a piece of garbage and then clean house in Valley Ranch of all the Landry era? You are not only fooling yourself, you don't know much about went on in Dallass. Jones was about to meet a lynch mob when Landry and most of his staff were fired.

Look man... I hate Dallas, I have hated Dallas since I was five.. I know everything about Dallas because I read about them constantly to fuel my hatred of them...

Yes even I felt sorry for Dallas fans when Jerry Jones fired Tom Landry on the Radio in 1988... I hated Tom Landry because he smoked my skins like a cheap cigar for a decade... but I certainly begrudgingly respected the man. My eye still twitches when anybody mentions Roger Staubach.

And yes I despised Jones for treating a historic, hall of fame coach, who was so very professional and honored throughout his career in such a manor..

Only Landry hadn't won his division much less a super bowl in a decade when Jones let him go... and Jones did replace him with Jimmy Johnson who set the team up to win three super bowls over the next five years. So I would say if Jones is a little arrogant.. at least Dallas fans have three super bowls to help them endure that... Over 12 complete seasons Danny's been running the show.. the skins have 1 division championship to show for it, this year.. that's it.... The coach with the highest winning percentage under Danny was Marty Shotenheimer who went 8-8 and was fired after one year by Danny.

I don't think it's possible to even put Jones record up against Danny's... There is simple no contest. Jones has won multiple super bowls and if he retired today would go into the HOF.... Danny hasn't won a playoff game in 12 seasons. ( that's ever).. And remember Danny inherited the NFC east champion so he didn't exactly start in a hole. He dug the hole.


---------- Post added February-8th-2013 at 11:17 AM ----------

All I know is, since Allen left the Raiders and Bucs, they have not returned to the playoffs.

On the flip side, we went from being league joke to division champions in three years.

I think you are being optimistic... Mike and Family don't have a winning record, haven't won a playoff game, and nearly got the rookie QB and franchise future crippled this year by playing him when it was obvious to casual TV viewers that he could not even walk without limping.

Allen was fired by the Bucs in 2008 after four consecutive losses in December and his team missing the playoffs... And I would wait until the skins win a playoff game before hoisting Allen on our shoulders...

It's been more than a decade, and they didn't get that done this year either... But every year we are full of hope.

---------- Post added February-8th-2013 at 11:41 AM ----------

Dan's not part of the process. The first thing Bruce told Dan when he got hired was to stay away from the park. Dan Snyder doesn't even have an office at Redskins Park anymore, last time I checked. Mike Shanahan's contract gives him total autonomy over the personnel decisions and Bruce is in charge of the contracts. Dan stays away and let's the football people do the football stuff.

It's all anyone's ever asked of him and it's finally starting to pay off.

Bruce Allen is famous for being an empty shirt. A yes man. A guy who was brought in to rubber stamp personnel moves ShinannaGang would engineer. A service Bruce previoiusly performed for John Gruden at the (Raiders and Bucs) If you think he laid down the law to Danny when he was rescued off the unemployment line after 3 years hiatus then you need to be on lithium cause you have broken from reality.

Meanwhile, Jerry Jones is involved in EVERY LAST ASPECT of his football team. Contracts, players,, coaches, stadium, friggin' EVERYTHING. The only time Jerry Jones ever has a good team is when he steps back and let's someone smarter than him take the reigns (Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells). Then his ego takes over and he goes out and hires another limp wristed coach, makes bad signing, trades and draft picks, the team sucks again, and that's that.

Jerry Jones has been owner of 3 super bowl champions.
Dan Snyder has had not won a playoff game yet as an owner...

Yes Dan has seemingly kept his fingers off the team the last few seasons ( which is part OCD, periods of control), although it sure looked like he was getting back in the saddle after the way the skins began 2012...

Dan has had seven head coaches in his 12 seasons as owner... That's as many head coaches as the franchise had in thirty years prior to Danny, across 4 different owners.
If Danny doesn't have his fingers in the pie today, history tells us he will shortly.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Do you mean ADHD (formerly ADD)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessi...lsive_disorder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhd

If so, I understand your point a little more clearly.

[JMS]

Do you mean ADHD (formerly ADD)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessi...lsive_disorder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhd

If so, I understand your point a little more clearly.

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder in which people have unwanted and repeated thoughts, feelings, ideas, sensations (obsessions), or behaviors that make them feel driven to do something (compulsions). Change coaches after 1 - 2 seasons.. spend huge amounts of money on free agents nobody else wants, change offensive or defensive schemes after 1-2 seasons.......

Often ( When Marty, Gibbs, Mike were first hired) the person carries out the behaviors to get rid of the obsessive thoughts, but this only provides temporary relief. Not performing the obsessive rituals causes great anxiety, ultimately the disorder re-appears and the ritualistic compulsions begin again, and again.. and again..

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder in which people have unwanted and repeated thoughts, feelings, ideas, sensations (obsessions), or behaviors that make them feel driven to do something (compulsions).

Often ( When Marty, Gibbs, Mike were first hired) the person carries out the behaviors to get rid of the obsessive thoughts, but this only provides temporary relief. Not performing the obsessive rituals can cause great anxiety.

Interesting take. I don't view it that way but at least you connected the dots for me.