Pope Benedict resigning Feb. 28, voting underway

[GoSkins0721]

For me, it was the barriers to entry and their ostracizing of anyone who is not Catholic. I suspect that's the same for many who marry outside Catholicism

At some point it just gets to be too much

When my in laws come to visit, and they are refused communion when they come to mass with me, makes me angry. I will always identify myself as Catholic on some level but the American in me thinks they can shove all their silly stupid laws directly up their ass.

And now their plan is to go more conservative in hopes to win people like me back. No thanks. If they want me back, the day I can step foot in their church and I will know that my wife and kids are welcome as I am, I will give it some thought. Until then, Catholic will just be a part of my family's history, no more.

Funny, first day I attended Methodist service, I was welcome. I was not asked if I was Methodist. They were simply glad to see me and invited me to communion.

Wonder what Jesus thinks? I bet he is glad the Catholics have all of those rules. I mean, it's not like he spent the better part of the Gospels railing against the Pharisees for the exact same thing. Because if he did, and I were part of the Catholic leadership, I might be concerned.

Also, their handling of the priest abuse scandals was disgraceful

Wow, that really hits home for me, too. Born & raised Catholic, with 12 years of Catholic school, it's been a while since I've thought about my reasons for straying away. The rules & rigidity made it unbearable for me. While in college, I went to many different religious services comparing each to Sunday Catholic Mass. It was strange to see, as you said, open arms to complete strangers when stopping in on a Sunday. And it never seemed like it was an act. Some had their own quirks, but they all presented an entirely different view to "Sunday service".

The priest scandal is a dark, dark stain on Catholic leadership. I have some friends I grew up with that were abused by priests at our parish. The shame, humiliation & scars are still with them today.

[JMS]

I want to touch on this.

The Catholic Church HAS to be better when it comes to money.

I am 26 years old, my wife 24.

We went to a weekend retreat for the Church, and we both got A LOT of it. More so then either of us EVER expected.

The last day before we left (and before they gave out the certificates) they gave out "donation cards". They accepted cash, credit cards, or checks.

After a short spiel asking for donations we were told "Before we proceed for the evening we will count all donation cards to make sure we received one back from every couple"

My future wife was shocked, and a few of the non Catholics in the room literally had this dumbfounded look on their face.

I went to a Catholic University ( Jesuits ) besides manditory philosophy, and theology, we also had to take a classes on comparitive world religions. The Jesuits ranked Catholism, various protestant religions, and other world religions across several catagories. They ranked Catholism highly on rituals, but low on experiencial, entertainment, and adaptability. The problem with modifying anything about the Catholic mass or religious classes offered though the church is really a central question for Catholics and has been for decades. It's a central dead question as long as conservatives are in charge of church leadership.

We took a huge step ( for us ) in 1965 when we went from latin masses and the priest facing away from the congretation during mass. We also introduced lei people in planning masses on Sunday ( within frameworks)... In 2012 we again modified our masses, only in 2012 under the direction of pope benidict we brought the language of literagy closer into line with what it was before Vatican Council II changed it in 1965. Stepping backward, which is what being a conservative in the church means. Holding the line, or regressing.

---------- Post added February-12th-2013 at 11:43 AM ----------

For me, it was the barriers to entry and their ostracizing of anyone who is not Catholic. I suspect that's the same for many who marry outside Catholicism

Too be fair you shouldn't single yourself out like that. There are many Catholics who will ostracize practicing Catholics just as harshly for any percieved infraction of their rules...
Danna Carvy's church lady is a parody of a real life phenomina, right down to the superior dance.

Also to be fair there are many Catholics and existing church docterine which teaches acceptence of the protestants and other beliefs.. Gone are the days when we burned you folks at the stake.

The Catholic religion is a big tent.. whatever you are looking for you can find. I kind of equate it to being an American, which is very odd for many protestants. As an amerian you may not agree with your President or Government Policies, but you still consider yourself an American. If you are looking for the negetives to being involved with Catholism you will find them... but if you look for the positives those aren't hard to find either.

---------- Post added February-12th-2013 at 11:48 AM ----------

I'm a little annoyed with the Church right now, because the ten year old I adopted needs to go through two full years of CCE classes before she can have Confirmation and First Communion. The seven and four year olds don't need to go through that because of their ages.

I can see you met the church lady. My daughter was baptized at birth, but she still had to complete two years of religious ed before her first communion.

If you are not born Catholic, it requires a massive level of commitment to become Catholic.

You should check out the requirements to convert to Judism.

I actually decided that I wanted to do RCIA a month after the classes started. The Nun in charge told me that I was going to have to wait until the next year to do it. I actually went to a priest on that and said, There is no guarantee that I am going to feel this same way in 11 months so you better hook me while you can).

And he let you in? Wow... They aren't usually that good about customer service or applied logic.

---------- Post added February-12th-2013 at 11:57 AM ----------

At last Sunday's Mass, the priest chanted much of the Mass and he sounded like a joke contestant on American Idol. The old guy opera singer wanna-be leading the hymns sounded like Kermit the Frog on his last legs. Then we had the joy of signing money pledge cards. I can't possibly see how any non-Catholic would want to be part of that.

Hey Harry Connick, Jr., Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Bruce Springsteen, Fergie, and Selena Gomez are Catholic; so you don't like the floor show at your mass, try another service; or heck try another church. We have depth at singer..

Besides we are better known for our athletics... Being Catholic allows you to root for Georgetown, Notre Dame, Xavior, BC, and a handful of other great sports teams. So we do have that curb appeal too.

---------- Post added February-12th-2013 at 12:05 PM ----------

My future wife was shocked, and a few of the non Catholics in the room literally had this dumbfounded look on their face.

You should check out the Mormon's policy on funds collecting.. The Catholic church is run on the franchise model. The checks don't go to Rome. Each Cardinal basically has his own franchise answerable to Rome. So the finances don't come out of the same kitty we paid Divinchi, Raphael, and Michelangelo out of. I don't know what you are concerned about anyway, they were just counting envolopes.. pledge $1.00... pledge $0.01... They won't even know until after the evening is over. Heck man when I tured West Minster Abby in London I had to cough up $75 large per person, and then suffer through endless speaches about how terrible Catholic Mary Tudor was. ( that wicked wicked lady )....

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The Catholic Church HAS to be better when it comes to money.

I am 26 years old, my wife 24.

We went to a weekend retreat for the Church, and we both got A LOT of it. More so then either of us EVER expected.

The last day before we left (and before they gave out the certificates) they gave out "donation cards". They accepted cash, credit cards, or checks.

After a short spiel asking for donations we were told "Before we proceed for the evening we will count all donation cards to make sure we received one back from every couple"

My future wife was shocked, and a few of the non Catholics in the room literally had this dumbfounded look on their face.

My wife and I are going through this now. I grew up in a Protestant Church where everything was "free" in the sense that if you wanted to go to a retreat, you went to a retreat. If you wanted to go to camp, you went to camp. Now, the church let it be known that these things do cost money and that the church was covering the cost and that the secretary would happily let you know what that cost was if you wanted to make a donation. But there was never a demand for cash up front.

Everything in my parish seems to have an up-front cost associated with it. It just seems strange to me, because I grew up in an extended family that was mostly Catholic and they always claimed that they were never asked for money the way Protestants were. (And it is true. In a Protestant Church, there is always a little production number before the offering plate is passed).

---------- Post added February-12th-2013 at 01:33 PM ----------

I I can see you met the church lady. My daughter was baptized at birth, but she still had to complete two years of religious ed before her first communion.

The issue I'm having is that she attends Catholic School where she has Religion classes. The other kids in her school do not have to do CCE for that reason, but because of some obscure bylaw, she does.

And - oh yea - CCE costs money.

[DisplacedRedskinsFan]

--------- Post added February-12th-2013 at 12:05 PM ----------

You should check out the Mormon's policy on funds collecting.. The Catholic church is run on the franchise model. The checks don't go to Rome. Each Cardinal basically has his own franchise answerable to Rome. So the finances don't come out of the same kitty we paid Divinchi, Raphael, and Michelangelo out of. I don't know what you are concerned about anyway, they were just counting envolopes.. pledge $1.00... pledge $0.01... They won't even know until after the evening is over. Heck man when I tured West Minster Abby in London I had to cough up $75 large per person, and then suffer through endless speaches about how terrible Catholic Mary Tudor was. ( that wicked wicked lady )....

Not that it matters, but the minimum "suggested" donation was "$50" or "$75"

I do not think they counted the money in front of us (I may be wrong) but I bet a dollar to donuts no one donated under $50.

EDIT - I left out this part. To take the class it cost $375.00. Room and board was included (you had a roommate, and I think 3 meals Saturday and 1 Sunday)

]]---------- Post added February-12th-2013 at 01:04 PM ----------[/


FYI - Sorry if this is going off topic too much. I just remembered the name of the weekend thing. It was called Engaged Encouters.

Religious or not, I can not say enough good things about it. Forced us to discuss many things that I would have never thought of, or just felt weirdly talking about.

I even remember my wife saying I showed emotion once or twice over the weekend, something she found very odd and foreign.

[gbear]

My Catholic high school always made a point of offering up communion for anyone who wanted it. The service I went to there last year, I forgot about it so I didn't stand up to get in line. I did however enjoy Fr. Peter's benediction of "Peace be with you" for all the non Catholics. I always liked the thought that maybe some of the spiritual side of a communion should come from each of the participants. I know that's not the official line of the Church, but still...

On facebook, I have this question in for one of my religion teachers from St. Anselms (he is no longer there, but he is still very involved in the Church), "Is there a second split in the Church imminent? I'm thinking along the lines of the Protestant reformation or split between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox churches? It seems there is a growing split between the comparatively liberal Church desired by many Americans and Europeans versus the more conservative church seemingly desired in Africa and South America. Note, I believe the church is growing in the later populations and suffering for participation in the former. Will there be a split in beliefs on daily living and accommodations like there appears to be in the Muslim faith? Radical Catholics?"

Maybe not a fair question as I sit on the outside but strongly in the more liberal interpretations camp. Heck, I used to view having standing dinner plans on Sundays as filling a role many of the early Christians used supper/mass to fill. Bring people together over food to strengthen social bonds. I'll grant not a single person was Catholic, and I think only a couple were even religious. But from the standpoint of providing solid social structures for support which I always thought was the most important part of religion in our society.

[JMS]

Not that it matters, but the minimum "suggested" donation was "$50" or "$75"
....
EDIT - I left out this part. To take the class it cost $375.00. Room and board was included (you had a roommate, and I think 3 meals Saturday and 1 Sunday)

So you paid 375$ and then they bullied you into donating another $50 or $75 once they had your original funds? I would have told them to eat mud... or I forgot my wallet...
or maybe... "no".. As a life long Catholic the entire experience sounds odd. It is not unusual for Catholic Church to try to cash in on you in your hour of need... Goes back to an indulgences thing from the middle ages that Martin Luther used to rail against... But they usually stick it too you when you have no choice... marriage ceremony come to mind.

My mom got me to cough up big money for a charity event once by starting out.... "we never do anything together anymore".... "I have these tickets to catholic charities" when I said I would go, she congratulated herself on having sold her last tickets and announced she wasn't going... My mom was always sharp like that.

[DisplacedRedskinsFan]

Correct. For the record, and to be 100% honest, I had no problem with it at the time.

P.S. It was a weekend event. A simply no was not accepted, and if you said you forgot your wallet I bet they would have offered to go up to your room and get it with you. They even bragged they accepted Visa or Mastercard :lol

We got married out of state, and the Church was great. My only complaint was they took a % of the money as a "deposit" that would be returned after the event. We never got that money back, but I never expected that from the get go (my wife did, and was shocked when we did not get the money back. I remember cutting the check and telling her we would never see that money).

Kind of funny this topic has come up, since I have seen the local Church has started the car raffles for 2013. In the envelope it asks you to return unsold tickets so others can buy them. Nothing wrong with it, I just kind of chuckled when I heard that line

[SKINS@THEGOALLINE]

A sign from God?
Lightning strikes Vatican Catholic church after Pope's announced resignation.
http://in.news.yahoo.com/lightning-s...044545237.html

[gbear]

You can't make this stuff up because nobody would believe you! Lightning striking St. Peter's...How very Zeus like!

[JMS]

My Catholic high school always made a point of offering up communion for anyone who wanted it.

Yeah those days are gone... long gone.

"Is there a second split in the Church imminent? I'm thinking along the lines of the Protestant reformation or split between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox churches? It seems there is a growing split between the comparatively liberal Church desired by many Americans and Europeans versus the more conservative church seemingly desired in Africa and South America.

I really don't think so... If you want a more liberal priest you do what Catholics have always done, you attend masses given by one of the orders, such as the Jesuits or Franciscans... and avoid the Dominican's like the plague. Historically there has always been pretty wide divide between Catholic Leadership and the laity. When you look at the great reform moments in Catholicism they all find their origins with the Laity, not the church fathers.

Will there be a split in beliefs on daily living and accommodations like there appears to be in the Muslim faith? Radical Catholics?".

Muslims split when Mohamed died 632 AD over who should replace him... His top adviser and confident, or his oldest surviving male heir.. ( son in law). Both Sunni and Shia Muslims share the most fundamental Islamic beliefs and articles of faith. The differences between these two main sub-groups within Islam stemmed not from spiritual differences but cultural...

Catholics tend to split over more important stuff... like who can get married to whom and such.

[AzSkinsFan63]

You can't make this stuff up because nobody would believe you! Lightning striking St. Peter's...How very Zeus like!

Just for you gbear....

Lightning bolt hit Vatican not once but TWICE hours after Pope's shock resignation...............
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...an-not-1705156

[gbear]

True, on the go to one of the orders. My school was part of a Benidictine monastery. When I left to go to college, I was surprised at some of the other churches.

Heck, we had a "Pro Choice" bumper sticker on the school van for a while as the priest driving made the point of saying it was his job to convince us of the evil of abortion, not the state. He thought the pro-life movement was inviting the state into his job's realm and worried the state would eventually make ill informed changes in the Church.

[JMS]

You can't make this stuff up because nobody would believe you! Lightning striking St. Peter's...How very Zeus like!

Does make you wonder what his secondary target would have been if St. Peters wasn't available. It would have to have been something pointy.





---------- Post added February-12th-2013 at 02:11 PM ----------

True, on the go to one of the orders. My school was part of a Benidictine monastery. When I left to go to college, I was surprised at some of the other churches.

Heck, we had a "Pro Choice" bumper sticker on the school van for a while as the priest driving made the point of saying it was his job to convince us of the evil of abortion, not the state. He thought the pro-life movement was inviting the state into his job's realm and worried the state would eventually make ill informed changes in the Church.

I had a Jesuit Father with a PHD.. ( they all have PHD's) teach evolution in Biology 101.
The Jesuits brought in a Rabi to teach early church history and theology.
And of coarse the Jesuits had their own Keg beer at Mardi Gras... ( Fat Tuesday... is today )..

[Predicto]

I think people really don't understand how broad a range of viewpoints is encompassed under the Catholic umbrella. There is an gay-friendly Catholic Parish in my neighborhood. I would say that 80 percent of the parishiners are openly gay. They support a senior center, a hospice, an AIDS support group, an alcoholic anonymous meeting every evening, they feed the homeless several times a week. It is extremely active and extremely inclusive and extremely gay. My mom attended services for six months when she was out here living with us, and it completely changed her views on gay issues.

Point is, if you don't like your Catholic parish, join a different one.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think people really don't understand how broad a range of viewpoints is encompassed under the Catholic umbrella. There is an gay-friendly Catholic Parish in my neighborhood. I would say that 80 percent of the parishiners are openly gay. They support a senior center, a hospice, an AIDS support group, an alcoholic anonymous meeting every evening, they feed the homeless several times a week. It is extremely active and extremely inclusive and extremely gay. My mom attended services for six months when she was out here living with us, and it completely changed her views on gay issues.

Point is, if you don't like your Catholic parish, join a different one.

Catholics represent a broad spectrum of humanity; it's probably the one church that encompasses the totality of humanity, hence the name. The Catholic Leadership, on the other hand, does not.

Regardless of the individual feel of the parishes in my diocese, last year, every priest was required by the Bishop to read a letter attacking the contraception mandate instead of giving a homily.

It took my wife and I a while to find the parish that suited us from a personality standpoint. I would argue that at this point American Catholicism is more of a cultural instituion than a religious instituion for the laity. This is also one of the reasons why there will never be an American Pope.