Ravens Playing with Fire Again?

[Hitman21ST]

Do you take less money to help your company out? I can't blame a guy for getting everything he can. The second he gets too badly hurt or old the Ravens will kick him to the curb without a second thought.

Companies don't have a predetermined salary cap and a limited number of employees.

[Mista T]

Flacco was over paid. He is a mid level QB at best. His ratings over the past 5 years prove that. Ravens will regret that contract

Please name the other "mid-level QBs" who have led their teams to 5 straight playoff appearnces in 5 years, three AFC Championship games, One SB win, zero INTs in playoffs, etc.?

[Warhead36]

The Ravens draft and develop talent as well as anyone. They won't have any problems surrounding Flacco with talent.

The Pats, Colts, and Steelers gave their QBs big money too. Hasn't affected them one bit.

You can bargain hunt at other positions. You don't dick around at QB.

[pjfootballer]

Please name the other "mid-level QBs" who have led their teams to 5 straight playoff appearnces in 5 years, three AFC Championship games, One SB win, zero INTs in playoffs, etc.?

Playoff performances are not the main criteria for determining how good a player is or not. Hell, after our SB 22 win over the Broncos, we should have paid Timmy Smith a kings ransom for his 204 yard performance. Regular season performance should always be factored in to contract negotiations.

---------- Post added March-6th-2013 at 01:19 PM ----------

Do you take less money to help your company out? I can't blame a guy for getting everything he can. The second he gets too badly hurt or old the Ravens will kick him to the curb without a second thought.

I don't get a 500% raise ever year so that is apples to oranges.

[DCSaints_fan]

Just double checked the stats. Flacco has never thrown for more than 25 TDs or 4000 yards. He's never had a YPA over 7.5 and has thrown double digit INTs ever year he's been in the league, so you cant use the efficiency argument. Rodgers and Brees have thrown over 4k yards, 25 TDs and had a YPA > 7.5 every year for the past 5 years, except one year for Brees when he was YPA was ~7.0. So I guess by that standard Rodgers and Brees should get around $30m per year.

[Fight4RGIII]

The man just wins damn football games. He isn't playing fantasy football and caring about stats. He's just trying to get the W. "Stats Shmats," Joe Flacco

[Mista T]

Playoff performances are not the main criteria for determining how good a player is or not.

Disagree. Ask any of the NFL's 32 coaches, GMs, and owners what is more important: playoff wins or regular season stats? I would be astonished if even one of them said stats.

Regular season performance should always be factored in to contract negotiations.

I'm sure that Ozzie did not ignore the regular season ... but gave it proper weight. Newton, Rivers, Stafford all played pretty well in the regular season, but got to watch the playoffs on TV instead of the sideline. You betcha that when the current crop of 1st year guys - Koepernick, Griffin, Wilson, Luck - come up for contract renewals, their wins, esp playoffs, will factor more heavily into their market value than regular season stats

Just double checked the stats. Flacco has never thrown for more than 25 TDs or 4000 yards. He's never had a YPA over 7.5 and has thrown double digit INTs ever year he's been in the league, so you cant use the efficiency argument. Rodgers and Brees have thrown over 4k yards, 25 TDs and had a YPA > 7.5 every year for the past 5 years, except one year for Brees when he was YPA was ~7.0. So I guess by that standard Rodgers and Brees should get around $30m per year.

You are likely correct about those particular stats. And if stats are more important than winning ball games, especially playoff games, you win the debate. But in my world, it's all about the "W's". Flacco is among the league's best in winning ball games. The Ravens recent Super Bowl run was not an aberration - Flacco has been leading regular season and playoff for his five years in the league.

Glad you mentioned Brees and Rodgers, the best of the rest outside of the declining Brady & Manning. For me: YPA, QSR, TYD passes = ESPN blah-blah-blah. They are just indicators that don't mean much per se. Here's how Flacco, Brees and Rodgers stack up in the most important factor -- wins -- since Flacco came to the NFL in 2008:

• Flacco 54-26 regular season, 9-4 playoff record, 5 seasons made playoffs, 3 AFC finals, 1 SB win
  
• Rodgers 53-27 regular season, 6-3 playoff record, 4 seasons made playoffs, 1 NFC finals, 1 SB win
  
• Brees 52-28 regular season, 4-2 playoff record, 3 seasons made playoffs, 1 NFC finals, 1 SB win

btw: These discussions remind me of the "I Love Billy" vs. "I Love Sonny" discussions of the 70s. Jurgenson has substantially better stats than Kilmer, yet Kilmer more of a winner -- he was a major factor in leading the Redskins to five playoffs in the 1970s.

[pjfootballer]

Disagree. Ask any of the NFL's 32 coaches, GMs, and owners what is more important: playoff wins or regular season stats? I would be astonished if even one of them said stats.

I'm sure that Ozzie did not ignore the regular season ... but gave it proper weight. Newton, Rivers, Stafford all played pretty well in the regular season, but got to watch the playoffs on TV instead of the sideline. You betcha that when the current crop of 1st year guys - Koepernick, Griffin, Wilson, Luck - come up for contract renewals, their wins, esp playoffs, will factor more heavily into their market value than regular season stats

btw: These discussions remind me of the "I Love Billy" vs. "I Love Sonny" discussions of the 70s. Jurgenson has substantially better stats than Kilmer, yet Kilmer more of a winner -- he was a major factor in leading the Redskins to five playoffs in the 1970s.

Of course when talking about QBs, you want playoffs to be the main criteria when talking about how good a guy is, but let's not forget that there are 52 other players on the team contributing to those wins. There are so many examples of QBs who could not win or get in the playoffs because of the team around them. As you said, Ozzie had to give the regular season proper weight, but I'm not sure I would have given it as less thought as he did.

I still don't think you are going to convince any "Redskins" fan in here that Flacco is worth 20 million a year. Like some of us said, he deserved a raise, but 10-15 million would have been more appropriate.

If you are going to talk about former Redskins QBs, at lest get the facts straight. During the early to mid 70s, Jurgenson was at the end of his career. He had suffered an achilles injury in 72 and was still 10 times better than Kilmer. Kilmer was never going to be great. He was a converted RB. Also, factor in that George Allen and Sonny didn't get along, so Allen did everything he could to keep him out of the lineup unless Sonny had to bail us out at the end of games. Allen relied on 2 things to win. The offense was supposed to manage the game and not make mistakes. The defense would win the game. Back then, QBs called their own plays and Allen hated that Sonny would come in and start winging the ball around and that he may have turnovers to lose the game. The Redskins rode their defense to SB 7. If Sonny had have played, we would have 4 trophies in the case and there would be no "perfect season." Sonny also QBed some great offenses in the 60s, but our defenses were so godawful, he had to put up 30 ppg, which was alot back then.

[Tweedr01]

The dude just finished his rookie season. Not sure what makes you, or anyone else, think that he's going to show dramatic improvement over the next few years. I'll agree with almost everyone when I say that the kids is intelligent and athletic. What I won't do is predict that he's going to rewrite history books. Untils he shows that he has the wisdom to protect himself, the jury is still out on this guy...

Lol, really?! The jury's still out on this guy? Your guy has 'had the jury out' for what? 8 years?

[Big Blue Joe]

I don't get a 500% raise ever year so that is apples to oranges.

But if you could get a 500% raise every year, would you turn it down because you felt it was in the best interests of your employer?

Look at Anquan Boldin. He played a huge role in helping the Ravens win the Super Bowl this season. He lead the team in receptions both during the regular season and the playoffs. He also made a number of clutch catches. Yet Baltimore is demanding that he either take a pay cut or get released. That's about as much loyalty as any player can expect from their team in the NFL. So why should they bend over backwards when they know the favor will never be repaid?

Companies don't have a predetermined salary cap and a limited number of employees.

The players would be more than happy to play in an uncapped NFL. The NFL teams are the ones who insist on it.

[Hitman21ST]

The players would be more than happy to play in an uncapped NFL. The NFL teams are the ones who insist on it.

What does that have to do with anything? Fact is there's a cap, and Flacco taking up as much of it as his contract does severely inhibits the Ravens from adding needed pieces. As for the company analogy, if NFL teams didn't have a salary cap, then this wouldn't be an issue.

[pjfootballer]

Boldin gone. Nah, had nothing to do with Flacco's contract.

Now Pollard.

[mikered30]

Is there a fire sale in Baltimore?

[redskindan07]

Nothing to do with Flacco's deal I bet, HA!

[Fight4RGIII]

Harbaugh had issues with Boldin, Pollard, and Reed. He wants to run his own ship and saw his chance to. They want to get younger as well. These moves had nothing to do with Flacco...