Cooperstown Central HS Students Vote to Replace Redskins Nickname. AP via USA Today.

[DC9]

Which is probably why PJF gets miffed when he's called a Yankee for being from Maryland, which is below the line.

I was born in Fairfax, VA and I get called a Yankee. It's hard to tell if some of them are refferring to the Mason-Dixon or whether they are talking about the lines of who fought for which side... lately I have thought that they don't consider you a southerner unless you have a school in the SEC.

It all goes back to their public school rankings, IMO. Virginia is #4 and Maryland is #1. Most SEC states are in the 40's. I wouldn't be offended by anything someone down there says. Annoyed, yes, but not offended.

[Tweedr01]

It all goes back to their public school rankings, IMO. Virginia is #4 and Maryland is #1. Most SEC states are in the 40's. I wouldn't be offended by anything someone down there says. Annoyed, yes, but not offended.

That's what the NA have said, they aren't even annoyed you Yank!

[DC9]

That's what the NA have said, they aren't even annoyed you Yank!

The US Men's Soccer team supporters call the team the Yanks. Even a good ole' Military Song gets used. (EDIT: RFK Stadium at the 8 second mark)

[Bang]

Threats to leave 'if'...

reminds me of Alec Baldwin and his myriad of Hollywood celebs who were supposed to move up to Canada if Bush was elected in 2000.

Well, if he does it would show more sack that being offended by "Redskins" because a small minority think referring to anything-skin is offensive, but not worrying about the "Washington" part, even though he owned human beings and worked them as slaves.
Sure he posthumously let them go, but only after his wife died, so he made damn sure they would not be free until they were done taking care of him and Martha. He inherited ownership of human beings from his dad, and kept them his whole life.

Which is more offensive, a term with an ambiguous definition, or a city named for a guy who absolutely exploited and enslaved other people?
Sure there's other reasons to honor Washington.. but as the other factual reasons for the term Redskins that have been presented and dismissed, I don't see why "Washington" should be any different.
There's no debate. The man owned slaves. There's no secondary reason, no other definition for the term. He kept them in drafty bunkhouses with dirt floors and wooden beds and they worked from sun up to sun down for nothing.

Picky choosy.. seems rather inconsistent.
You're either all in on the "offensive names" anger, or you're a poseur.

Which is it?

~Bang

[RFKFedEx]

Well, if he does it would show more sack that being offended by "Redskins"

Will you leave if it happens?

[Bang]

Will you leave if it happens?

Why would i do that?
I haven't made any such comment that i ever would.
i just don't think it should happen for the reasons being presented.
I oppose the change.
If Nonniev chooses to leave over it, that's his business.
My main problem with this isn't over the name, it's the minority rules bull****... it's the entitled attitude that says that if a tiny fraction feels offense, they must demand that everyone else feel it too. they never consider that they may be the ones with the issue.
That and they, like you, are extremely picky and choosy over what is supposed to be offensive.
Outrage without THOUGHT.
Unless you haven't been paying attention, that very thing is a big problem in this country. it runs our government, it shapes the propaganda the news feeds us.. outrage without thought. Be angry, always be angry. Someone else will tell you why. Just be angry.
It's standard operating procedure these days.

Now, answer my question. I've asked you this about 5 times over these threads, and it's ducked every time.
Why no problem with the Washington half of the name?

Why does slave owner George get a pass when it comes to human exploitation?
Apply all the reasoning you've used to condemn the word "Redskins" to the honorific of a slave owner, and how do you feel about it?

~Bang

[DC9]

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/fan...erican-mascots

Just saw this on espn, didn't see it posted yet (more at the link):

As I'm sure you're aware, there's an increasing movement to have the Washington Redskins football team change its name. Any thoughts on that?

I think that would be most appropriate.


One of the most contentious issues that comes up in these discussions is whether white people's opinions -- or any non-Natives' opinions -- should even matter. Should non-Natives have a voice in this debate? Should we simply have a vote among Native Americans and let them decide?

I have to chuckle when I hear that. We all live in this wonderful globe together. If there's a negative impact on any one group, that impacts all of us as a whole. I think everyone, collectively, can have a voice in this. We have many brothers and sisters in various minority groups who know what it means to be marginalized, so of course we welcome their voices.


And that would also apply to white Americans?


Absolutely. If we're going to have this debate and bring it to a positive conclusion, we'd be doing ourselves a disservice by limiting it.

Last question: Have you had discussions with people in your tribe, or from other tribes, who see this as more of a black-and-white issue?


That's the wonderful thing about having our own free will and personal opinion. There are members of my tribe who are very steadfast and who say, "Enough's enough -- it's time to put a stop to this." And there are those who see, as I do, the opportunities for outreach and healthy dialogue. I celebrate that diversity of opinion, because I think it makes us more well-rounded.

[Bang]

Interesting..
how does: "That's the wonderful thing about having our own free will and personal opinion. There are members of my tribe who are very steadfast and who say, "Enough's enough -- it's time to put a stop to this." And there are those who see, as I do, the opportunities for outreach and healthy dialogue. I celebrate that diversity of opinion, because I think it makes us more well-rounded."

jive with: " If we're going to have this debate and bring it to a positive conclusion, we'd be doing ourselves a disservice by limiting it. "

What is his idea of a positive conclusion?
seems to me it sounds like he's already made up his mind what it should be, regardless of how "well rounded" his discussion is.
I hear, "That's nice, but I'll tell you what to be offended over."
His two sentences prove he's just giving lip service to those who disagree with him.

He also says "We all live in this wonderful globe together. If there's a negative impact on any one group, that impacts all of us as a whole. I think everyone, collectively, can have a voice in this. We have many brothers and sisters in various minority groups who know what it means to be marginalized, so of course we welcome their voices.
and ignores that the majority of his people don't feel the negative impact.
In other words, their opinion marginalizes HIS, and he doesn't like it. He feels that it's their opinion that should be marginalized, and he does EXACTLY that.
So what he should say is "If I perceive a negative impact, i assume that is negative for everyone"

Again: "I will tell you what to be offended over."

~Bang

[nonniey]

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/fan...erican-mascots

Just saw this on espn, didn't see it posted yet (more at the link):

If non-natives didn't have a say in this it would not be an issue at all as the I believe over 99% of those pushing for a name change are non-natives. As Bang pointed out apparently those people think American Indians are too stupid to know what they should be offended by, so they take it upon themselves to go to battle on behalf of these "stupid" people.

[GibbsFactor]

I wouldn't say the only one, but you are a very small (tiny) minority. Frankly if they changed the name I'd consider any supporter of this new team to be traitors to the Redskins. So I already look upon Redskins fans that would be ok with a name change, with a very jaundiced eye (in other words I believe they really should find another team to root for).

lol

[Henry]

I was born in Fairfax, VA and I get called a Yankee. It's hard to tell if some of them are refferring to the Mason-Dixon or whether they are talking about the lines of who fought for which side... lately I have thought that they don't consider you a southerner unless you have a school in the SEC.

It all goes back to their public school rankings, IMO. Virginia is #4 and Maryland is #1. Most SEC states are in the 40's. I wouldn't be offended by anything someone down there says. Annoyed, yes, but not offended.

The funny thing is, Robert E. Lee lived in Alexandria (now Arlington). I guess that makes him a Yankee too.

Anyway, sorry. Back to the great Redskin debate.

[Dan T.]

lol

My reaction was more . His argument doesn't make a lick of sense.

[youngchew]

Good for Cooperstown Central High School. I'm sure all the students there are so greatly involved in Native American affairs and won't stop until they get justice.

[Larry]

The funny thing is, Robert E. Lee lived in Alexandria (now Arlington). I guess that makes him a Yankee too.

Yeah, when I moved from Fairfax to Norfolk, and my coworker called me "yankee", I tried that reasoning, too. Pointing out that my home and my high school were south of Robert E. Lee's.

Didn't work for him, either.

(And, I will admit that, at least "the sweet tea test" says he's right. You didn't get into sweet tea country till you were near Richmond.)

[nonniey]

My reaction was more . His argument doesn't make a lick of sense.

What argument? It was statement of fact. So you don't/wouldn't like my reaction, I could not care less. I stand by my position that you and others that espouse or would be ok with a name change should find another team to root for as you're not real Redskins fans imo.