PFT: Chiefs trade for Alex Smith

[Burgold]

Epic thread on the KC site, overflowing w/ hilarity.

I am smirking a bit though, we saw almost that level of angst here directed @ Shanahan not too long ago. Very similar situation, Reid has a trainwreck of a franchise, need to do a lot of boring basic work first, so he deals for a vet QB to tide him over until he is ready to draft his QB. Sort attention span fans foam at the mouth, completely oblivious to their own ignorance of pro football. Yep, sure sounds familiar...................

Heck, it's what Gibbs tried to do as well with Brunell. Get at least a solid vet who can hold things together and maybe win some games while you are addressing the rest of the team. Besides, it's really hard to guage how good your team is with a rookie qb.

[pjfootballer]

Sounds like you are talking mostly from hindsight. Many felt Ramsey was the future up to his fourth season when Gibbs benched him in the middle of the opener. Campbell showed steady development up through his third season when fans started getting disenchanted by him. Campbell didn't even play his first season, so I don't know how you can say he wasn't the answer at that point.

Not hindsight. Nothing Ramsey did ever impressed me. He had a few games here and there that made you want to think he might be the guy, but he looked like a deer in headlights most of the time. Without starting another Campbell debate, yes, he showed improvement. Like Ramsey, he had a few games here and there that made you look up, but the improvement was from average to a little above average. Neither guy at ANY time while I watched them play had the "wow" or "it" factor that you see from 1st round QBs. Anyone who thought either was a long term answer was either trying to convince themselves or they just don't have any idea what a starting QB in the NFL is supposed to be. One guy is out of the league and the other is playing just like most thought he would. Below average.

---------- Post added February-28th-2013 at 08:09 AM ----------

I'm ...On the other, the Chiefs haven't drafted a quarterback in the first round in 4 decades. And in 4 decades, they haven't won a single championship. They've made playoff runs, made it to an a couple championship games, but they haven't been in a Super Bowl since 1969.

Todd Blackledge in 1983 would like a word with you.

(But I get your point, just yanking your chain a little.)

[TheLongshot]

Not hindsight. Nothing Ramsey did ever impressed me. He had a few games here and there that made you want to think he might be the guy, but he looked like a deer in headlights most of the time. Without starting another Campbell debate, yes, he showed improvement. Like Ramsey, he had a few games here and there that made you look up, but the improvement was from average to a little above average. Neither guy at ANY time while I watched them play had the "wow" or "it" factor that you see from 1st round QBs. Anyone who thought either was a long term answer was either trying to convince themselves or they just don't have any idea what a starting QB in the NFL is supposed to be. One guy is out of the league and the other is playing just like most thought he would. Below average.

Ramsey had to suffer through Spurrier's offensive system, which regularly got him pummeled , so many were willing to give him a pass and let him develop.

As for Campbell, I still think he's a good QB who managed to get better while the team around him deteriorated. Problem is, he's also a guy who fits in with a different era. He has a lot of the qualities Gibbs looked for in a QB, and probably would have been a successful QB under Gibbs had things continued. Unfortunately, there aren't that many other systems he'd be a good fit for. (Tho, I think with the Raiders, he proved he can be successful in the right system.)

As for knowing "what a starting QB is supposed to be", I guess none of us do. Guys like RG3 are rare. Most starters have their ups and downs, and are not always consistently great. It is why most great teams have other players who also make plays for those times when the QB isn't able to make the plays.

[Hiro]

But really...what do the Chiefs have to lose? If Geno isn't the guy, it's not like before when you would have to put up with a guy becomes you gave him a ginormous contract. If it doesn't work after a few years you can cut bait, no harm, no foul. If Geno IS the guy, then your chances of getting back to a Super Bowl dramatically increase. I don't blame Chiefs fans for being livid about the Smith trade. They finally felt like they were going to get THEIR GUY, a guy they could root for, not another teams cast off.

And now? They have Alex Smith.

Kind of sucks.

I kind of see it through a lens similar to what happened with here with Mike and Bruce.

Arguably, this is a terrible year to draft high for QBs, and Geno Smith (arguably) is the top QB in a very weak class. I even read one interview where a GM said that Brandon Weeden would be the top rated QB in this class, his age aside.

If Reid isn't convinced that Geno is the guy, why should he draft him just based on A) need and B) the fans want him? Lest we forget, we ourselves traded for a much older QB for a similar price back in 2010. While his pedigree was much greater, McNabb at that stage in his career had arguably less upside than Alex Smith does now.

I don't think Reid sees Smith as his guy for years to come. I personally think he looks at Smith as a guy who can be a placeholder and still win games while they look for their actual franchise QB in the years to come.

Make no mistake, Geno Smith isn't anything close to the prospect Luck, RG3 or even Sam Bradford was. Hell, Cam Newton was even more exciting due to his winning pedigree and his exciting playmaking ability. To simply 'settle' on Geno Smith just because of need and the fact they're at #1 would have been a much greater risk.

[KDawg]

...On the other, the Chiefs haven't drafted a quarterback in the first round in 4 decades. And in 4 decades, they haven't won a single championship. They've made playoff runs, made it to an a couple championship games, but they haven't been in a Super Bowl since 1969.

I truly belief that if you're going to win a championship, you have to do it with a quarterback that you draft. Guys like Drew Brees and Kurt Warner are exceptions not rules.

Doesn't that kind of weaken your stance though? On one hand you say you have to do it with a QB that you draft then on the other you turn around and say, "except for in these cases!" And for the record, those aren't the only cases. How about Trent Dilfer? Brad Johnson? Brett Favre?

While I think the point of drafting your own franchise quarterback and grooming them is a good one, and one that lends itself to potential championships, it's clearly not the only route to take. It's just an advisable one.

The question the Chiefs had was "is Geno Smith worth a first overall pick?". If you're measuring things value wise, no, probably not.

I would agree that he's not. Then factor in that they probably know that Albert probably won't reup regardless and they have a hole at quarterback and left tackle. Or, maybe Albert will reup, but health is a concern so they want insurance. And in the mean time, they move one or the other to the other tackle or a guard position (likely Albert).

My assumption is they felt that Joeckel is a better player than anything they could have acquired in a trade at LT... They probably also felt that Joeckel is a better football player than Geno Smith.

Then compare Alex Smith to Matt Cassel. Major upgrade. The cost is a bit high, but it allowed them to address their LT/QB positions with their first/second rounders.

It makes sense, but I can understand why the Chiefs fans are upset. Getting a shiny new quarterback is always more fun than a retread... Until the retread kicks butt OR the shiny new toy busts.

But, if they don't take Joeckel at number one, I'll be in their camp more solidly.

[War Paint]

I just can't believe how lopsided that trade was. The 49ers made out like bandits. They get a 2nd round pick which is basically a late 1st rounder. Then they potentially get a 2nd or 3rd next year, and get 9 million dollars in cap savings in this deal. Heck, the 49ers probably would've released him to avoid the cap hit. Unbelievable. How in the heck did Alex Smith yield so much? I'm still in shock. This must be a pretty damning statement for this year's QB draft class. What a crappy year to have the #1 overall pick. Who knows, maybe Reid will have Alex Smith balling out for the next five years

A lot of KC fans were on the Geno Smith bandwagon. While most analysts agree that Geno is no RG3 or Cam Newton, there were a lot of KC fans expressing a ton of excitement and optimism for Geno, like we were for RG3 last year. I can't imagine how I would've felt if we traded a 2nd round pick and another pick for Alex Smith; thus, ending the hope of getting RG3.

To top it off, the Raiders, KC's arch-rival is showing interest in Geno Smith. That's just salt on the wound for KC fans.

[TheLongshot]

I just can't believe how lopsided that trade was. The 49ers made out like bandits. They get a 2nd round pick which is basically a late 1st rounder. Then they potentially get a 2nd or 3rd next year, and get 9 million dollars in cap savings in this deal. Heck, the 49ers probably would've released him to avoid the cap hit. Unbelievable. How in the heck did Alex Smith yield so much? I'm still in shock. This must be a pretty damning statement for this year's draft class in QBs. What a crappy year to have the #1 overall pick. Who knows, maybe Reid will have Alex Smith balling out for the next five years

Why are people shocked when QBs get traded for a premium? It is a position that very rarely does a good one enter the FA market, and teams generally need a good QB to be competitive. Whatever you might think of Smith's career, his last couple of years have been pretty good. Certainly you won't likely find a guy in the 2nd round that will likely be as productive as Smith. You certainly won't find it in FA.

A lot of KC fans were on the Geno Smith bandwagon. While most analysts agree that Geno is no RG3 or Cam Newton, there were a lot of KC fans expressing a ton of excitement and optimism for Geno, like we were for RG3 last year. I can't imagine how I would've felt if we traded a 2nd round pick and another pick for Alex Smith; thus, ending the hope of getting RG3.

The problem with any 1st round QB is that the field is littered with as many failures as successes. If Smith isn't RG3, or Luck, or Newton, he certainly isn't worth the first pick in the draft.

[Destino]

They needed a QB, none was available in the draft at their spot that they liked, and they couldn't risk not getting one. I don't think the trade is terrible if Reid can get good results out of Smith. He's certainly shown the ability to get more out of QBs than other teams, just ask any team that ever acquired a QB from the eagles.

[pjfootballer]

Ramsey had to suffer through Spurrier's offensive system, which regularly got him pummeled , so many were willing to give him a pass and let him develop.

As for Campbell, I still think he's a good QB who managed to get better while the team around him deteriorated. Problem is, he's also a guy who fits in with a different era. He has a lot of the qualities Gibbs looked for in a QB, and probably would have been a successful QB under Gibbs had things continued. Unfortunately, there aren't that many other systems he'd be a good fit for. (Tho, I think with the Raiders, he proved he can be successful in the right system.)

As for knowing "what a starting QB is supposed to be", I guess none of us do. Guys like RG3 are rare. Most starters have their ups and downs, and are not always consistently great. It is why most great teams have other players who also make plays for those times when the QB isn't able to make the plays.

Ok. I can dig what you are saying and agree with you. Fair assessment that none of know as we aren't scouts and basically it was my eyeball test. Campbell would be great in a system like SF, Baltimore or Oakland (where he was), but he can't be a guy to put the ball up 30-40 times a game. Ramsey was shellshocked, but he did have some time in Gibbs offense and couldn't pull himself out of his trouble.

[War Paint]

Why are people shocked when QBs get traded for a premium? It is a position that very rarely does a good one enter the FA market, and teams generally need a good QB to be competitive. Whatever you might think of Smith's career, his last couple of years have been pretty good. Certainly you won't likely find a guy in the 2nd round that will likely be as productive as Smith. You certainly won't find it in FA.



The problem with any 1st round QB is that the field is littered with as many failures as successes. If Smith isn't RG3, or Luck, or Newton, he certainly isn't worth the first pick in the draft.

Yes, QBs are highly valued, but Alex Smith is a game manager. He was considered a bust for many years until Harbaugh came along, who brought him from a bust to a game manager. When you factor in that Smith wanted to be released and that the 49ers didn't want to take a big cap hit, they would've released him. It's not that I think it's a bad move that KC went a got a veteran QB. It's the compensation. Mark Brunell had a more impressive resume than Alex Smith and we only gave up a 3rd round pick for him. We gave up something similar as the Chiefs did when we got McNabb, but McNabb was a multiple probowler who was part of a winning franchise for many years. Who knows, I hope it works out for Chiefs, but I understand why their message board is in meltdown mode. Of course, Smith could turn out to be excellent in Reid's system and Geno might be more of a Jason Campbell than a RG3.

To your second point, and I do realize that this appears to be a very weak QB class, sometimes you have to take the risk and go for it. A lot of people were scared about us pulling the trigger on a QB in the 1st round last year. We could've been gun shy and chickened out. Aren't you glad we rolled the dice and got RG3?

[TheLongshot]

Yes, QBs are highly valued, but Alex Smith is a game manager. He was considered a bust for many years until Harbaugh came along, who brought him from a bust to a game manager. When you factor in that Smith wanted to be released and that the 49ers didn't want to take a big cap hit, they would've released him. It's not that I think it's a bad move that KC went a got a veteran QB. It's the compensation. Mark Brunell had a more impressive resume than Alex Smith and we only gave up a 3rd round pick for him. We gave up something similar as the Chiefs did when we got McNabb, but McNabb was a multiple probowler who was part of a winning franchise for many years. Who knows, I hope it works out for Chiefs, but I understand why their message board is in meltdown mode. Of course, Smith could turn out to be excellent in Reid's system and Geno might be more of a Jason Campbell than a RG3.

The difference there is that Smith is 28 and has potentially many more prime years than either of those guys. And yes, you can wait to see if no one decides to trade for him and SF releases him, but I said already that QBs are always in high demand.

To your second point, and I do realize that this appears to be a very weak QB class, sometimes you have to take the risk and go for it. A lot of people were scared about us pulling the trigger on a QB in the 1st round last year. We could've been gun shy and chickened out. Aren't you glad we rolled the dice and got RG3?

There is a difference between choosing a QB you feel is right for your team, and choosing a QB because you need a QB. Many draft failures come from the latter.

[War Paint]

I completely understand why KC would go for a veteran QB like Alex Smith. I just think they paid way too much for him. I can see giving up a 4th this year and a 4th next year for him. At best, I can see one 3rd round pick, but a high 2nd rounder, plus another mid-round to 2nd round pick next year? No way. You don't give away picks like that unless you think you're getting a franchise quality QB. Alex Smith is not a franchise quality QB. He is a game manager. Now if he happens to turn out like Drew Brees, then I'm sure KC fans will gladly eat crow. I just don't see that happening.

Just to add a stat I saw on the KC forums, Alex Smith is 2-27-1 against teams that score 24 or more points. I haven't checked to see if it's true, but it's been floated on their boards quite a bit so I assume it's true.

[Riggo-toni]

I've said it before and will repeat it here:
Andy Reid without Jim Johnson is Ditka without Buddy Ryan.

Reid is too Walshified pass happy to put Smith in situations to win,namely handing off the Charles 25-30 times a game.

[NLC1054]

I still think the Chiefs should've bit the bullet and drafted Geno Smith.


It's like when Matt Ryan was coming out of Boston College. Even though he was the best quarterback in the draft, he wasn't an "elite" prospect; people said he was too much of a gunslinger, he had accuracy issues, and they weren't overly impressed by his arm strength. So instead of taking Matt Ryan, the Dolphins traded for Chad Pennington, drafted Jake Long in the first, and then drafted Chad Henne as their developmental QB of the future in the second.

The Dolphins won the AFC East and made it to the playoffs in 2008, Pennington had just his second 16 game season in his career, they unveiled the Wildcat and all that good stuff.

Then in 2009, they slid backwards. They lost their first three games, they lost Pennington for the year, and Chad Henne had an up and down season. They missed the playoffs and went 7-9.
Then in 2010, they slid backwards more. Chad Henne started the season, only to get benched for Pennington, who got hurt again, and then Chad Henne got hurt, and they had to start Tyler Thigpen.
Then in 2011, they pretty much had one of their worst seasons on record, and had to start Henne and Matt Moore.
They finally drafted their first round quarterback in Ryan Tannehill, who was the first guy they'd taken in the first round since they drafted Dan Marino in 1983 in 2012.
And now, in 2013, "franchise" left tackle they drafted first overall instead of Matt Ryan, is going to hit the market, and after injuies and what not is looked at as primarily a right tackle.

And all Matt Ryan has done in that time frame is compile a 56-22 record and lead his football team to an NFC Championship game.

Point is, when you've got the best quarterback in the draft staring you in the face, you take the best quarterback in the draft. There's no reason not to, especially with the new rookie salary cap. Geno might not be "elite", but he's better than any guy you're going to draft after him, he's got a higher ceiling than Alex Smith, and there's no guarantee that you're going to get a shot at this kind of talent again.


Trading for Alex Smith was a win now move for a guy who has spent the last two seasons failing at making win now moves.

[DCSaints_fan]

Why are people shocked when QBs get traded for a premium? It is a position that very rarely does a good one enter the FA market, and teams generally need a good QB to be competitive. Whatever you might think of Smith's career, his last couple of years have been pretty good. Certainly you won't likely find a guy in the 2nd round that will likely be as productive as Smith. You certainly won't find it in FA.

Matt Cassell had a better years in NE/KC than Smith ever had in SF. Smith has never thrown for 20+ TDs .. Cassel has done that twice. Smith only looks better because he was on a team with a much better defense for much of his career.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...44/matt-cassel
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...416/alex-smith

Yes, Cassel also had much worse years than Smith, but the problems in KC go much deeper than the QB, trading for a QB is a total waste of a draft pick. They're basically replacing Matt Cassel, with Matt Cassel.