Another example for community policing: Unarmed teen killed by the police

[OURYEAR#56]

Officer, tactics under scrutiny in Brooklyn shooting

By MICHAEL WEISSENSTEIN
Associated Press Writer

January 25, 2004, 7:13 PM EST


NEW YORK -- A Brooklyn grand jury this week will consider charges including murder against the police officer who fatally shot an unarmed teenager Saturday in the stairwell of a Bedford-Stuyvesant housing complex, law-enforcement officials said.

The broader issue of tactics and training also came under scrutiny as the police department and some of its critics began to weigh whether the killing of Timothy Stansbury Jr. indicates a broader problem with the way officers patrol public housing.

The department's chief spokesman said Sunday that Police Commissioner Ray Kelly would convene a special panel of borough-level commanders Monday to review tactical and training issues arising from the pre-dawn killing.

Stansbury was shot once in the chest as he pushed open a red metal door to the roof of the Louis Armstrong Houses around 1:30 a.m. Saturday. Housing Officer Richard Neri, who had his gun drawn, was pulling the door from the other side as part of a routine stairwell and rooftop patrol called a vertical that he was conducting with his partner.

Stansbury, who was black, was a 19-year-old senior at Thomas Jefferson High School who worked part-time at a McDonald's, relatives said.

Neri, who is white, is an 11-year veteran who had never fired his gun in the line of duty, police said.

Kelly called a press conference hours after the shooting and labeled Stansbury's killing "unjustified." The officer was told to surrender his badge and gun and report for restricted duty.

Even for Kelly, who has been swifter than many of his predecessors to accept police culpability in racially charged shootings, the statement was unusual for the speed and certainty with which it assigned fault to the police.

It provoked condemnation from the city's police union Sunday.

"It's absolutely wrong for police Commissioner Kelly to have jumped to a conclusion," Patrick Lynch, president of the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, said in a prepared statement. "This investigation should be allowed to move forward without being tainted by politics or comments by Commissioner Kelly or others."

Brooklyn District Attorney Charles Hynes moved with similarly unusual swiftness to bring the case before a grand jury, which was to consider charges ranging from manslaughter to murder as early as Wednesday, law-enforcement officials said.

Kelly said Saturday that it was not unusual for police to patrol rooftops with pistols in hand. Lt. Eric Adams, the head of 100 Blacks in Law Enforcement Who Care, said Sunday that officers too readily unholstered their weapons in public housing projects, placing innocent residents at risk.

Standing in front of an impromptu memorial to Stansbury at the entrance of the four-story red-brick building where the teen was killed, Adams called for a review of how officers are told to draw their weapons on patrol.

He said that Public Service Area 3, the housing police district where Neri was assigned, saw at least six shootings of suspects or dangerous dogs last year, which he called an unusual number.

Adams said officers often encountered menacing dogs such as pit bulls on public housing rooftops where their owners had taken them to exercise. The encounters left officers fearful for their safety and may be why Neri had his gun drawn, Adams said.

Residents of Stansbury's building said police had shot a neighbor's pit bull on the roof last year.

"Our agency should have said we need to look at this and teach officers how to enter the roofs," Adams said. "This shooting should not be viewed in a vacuum."

James O'Keefe, a criminal justice professor and former training director for the New York police academy, said officers were taught to draw their guns in situations where they felt at risk. A rooftop that had been the site of a previous dog attack was almost certainly such a place, he said.

The police department said statistics on police shootings in PSA 3 and comparable areas were not immediately available.


Copyright © 2004, The Associated Press | Article licensing and reprint options

__________________________________________________ __

I think it's time the community polices itself.

[Kilmer17]

I agree 56. The police should only go to the areas that people want them to be in. And those places where people respect them. Let these crime infested areas fend for themselves. That will work great.

[endzone_dave]

I agree with Kilmer. Take the cops off the streets in these areas. They obviously don't accomlish anything other than shooting innocent people.

[webnarc]

Originally posted by endzone_dave
I agree with Kilmer. Take the cops off the streets in these areas. They obviously don't accomlish anything other than shooting innocent people.

Obviously? How is it obvious? This statement is a generalization because I'm sure there is at least one person in Brooklyn who would disagree that police do not accomplish anything in this area. The fact that the police are in the area is an indication that someone has made the powers that be aware of the need for a police presence.

"This shooting should not be viewed in a vacuum."

I've lived in buildings before and I WASN'T allowed to go on to the roof; it is considered trespassing. Point is, no one NEEDS to be on the roof. What temperature was it on Saturday night at 1:30?

It's ironic that someone will post their experience of a street person trespassing in their building and everyone will agree that it's a crime. But the cops shoot someone for trespassing and there's hell to pay. I'm not suggesting that the cop is innocent, his gun did kill someone, but why was the victim there and don't we have an obligation to ourselves and society to NOT put ourselves in harms way?

There were thousands of people NOT killed by the cops on Saturday night in Brooklyn. One thing they share in common, they did not trespass on a roof.

[jbooma]

OY are you ever going to have something postive to say??

I see you never post the positive news about police or safety officers.

[OURYEAR#56]

No JBOO I won't have anything positive to say about thepoliceon this site. I post this articlein protest to the Liberal bashing that goes on everyday on this site. OM said that all I do is post negative things about race, I'm just following the crowd. So everytime that you see one of these post it will be to shed a light on the racial problem in America. I'm mad. I get a public lynching by OM, and Kilmer can post bullsh*t about democrats, and liberals all day. Isn't that preferential treatment.
On another note. Community policing should have people in that area that represent the people. No more jumpy trigger happy Dirty Harry wanna bees. But I hear you Kilmer,let the cops keep shooting innocent people and every one will comply with the law. I mean it's only fair right? It looks real good when a white guy goeson a roof in a prodomantly black area with his guns drawn. That's my tax dollars at work. Now if you want to come to New York and help me carry the casket that would be even better.

[OURYEAR#56]

Or better yet let me come down there and see how many uarmed kids I can shoot if I'm wearing a badge. Do I get bomus points for shooting the ones with the Justin Timberlake CD?

[Kilmer17]

As I said OY, pull the cops out of the high crime infested areas. Let the criminals run rampant. Who cares about the innocent people that are victimized by criminals right? Only Cops commit crimes in your mind.

[webnarc]

Originally posted by OURYEAR#56
Or better yet let me come down there and see how many uarmed kids I can shoot if I'm wearing a badge. Do I get bomus points for shooting the ones with the Justin Timberlake CD?

No, that would be murder, first degree I think. Depending upon where you did it, you'd get life or the death penalty.


How many cops have you known who just love killing innocent people? Based on the content of your posts, I'm inclined to say you've known a few.

Racism is a big problem in America, but you win few supporters when you talk this line of crap; particularly when you say it was posted as a protest to all the liberal basing that goes on.

You hate COPS plain and simple and you hate liberal cops as much as you hate conservative cops. These are core values to you and if they aren't, shut it and speak about things you actually believe in.

You blame the cops for the actions of the public and you're really quick to throw in the towel and say the community could do a better job. For once I'd love to hear you say "it sucks that the kid died, but I'll hold off judgement until I findout why he was on the roof or why the cops are patrolling the roof in the first place." No, the cops murdered another trespassing kid so all cops are bad, but your beef is actually with Kilmer bashing liberals and that's what this post is about.

[tkatz]

OURYEAR, I dont know where you live or your background but to say that the Police do no good in places like Brooklyn or the Bronx is ridiculous and you have no basis for a remark such as that. Clearly you have not looked at statistics or heard amazing individual stories. If you'd care to check the New York Times everyonce in awhile you would have seen that the crimerate in both the BX as well as Brooklyn has been on the decline for the past eight years. Former Mayor Rudy G did a substantial ammount of work reforming the streets into much safter places.

I live in a moderately white and wealthy area but have been to both of those places often. My friend of many years has lived there all his life. His apartment was being robbed and it was the cops who showed up and managed to subdue the burglars. That story does not have much bearing in the broad picture but it is a nice picture of how the police do help.

Rethink your statement b/c it is ridiculous. Of course I know there are corrupt cops and that they always manage to **** something up. But in hindsight, they do more good then bad.

...Ouryear, if you are interested in my views on racism check out the thread I just started. I think we may share some of the same opinions...

[jbooma]

Originally posted by OURYEAR#56
Or better yet let me come down there and see how many uarmed kids I can shoot if I'm wearing a badge. Do I get bomus points for shooting the ones with the Justin Timberlake CD?

OY why don't get out of the tough streets of CT and come to DC and then try to talk this crap, oh I bet you didn't know that the majority of the cops down here are minority

You seriously have no clue do you

[Sarge]

OY, I'm sorry, but you are so full of **** your eyes are brown, and it ain't from your skin color.

I guess you never stop to think after reading these articles about why some kid was on a rooftop at 130 am? Of course thinking does not appear to be your strong suit.

I'm guessing this kid was not striving to become the next Carl Sagan.Maybe someone actually called the cops because they were afraid of whoever it was that was trespassing (which is against the law,BTW) on the roof. The mere fact that it appears to be standard operating procedure for cops to go on rooftops with guns drawn leads me to believe they are inherently dangerous places. But I have a great idea for your appearant quandry over the issue. Why don't you go join the neighborhood watch and patrol the rooftops with Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton, since you and they appear to be birds of a feather. Or better yet, JOIN the cops. Then you can go up there with full legal authority. Oh, and be sure to keep your weapon holstered. Wouldn't want to accidently shoot any crackheads..............................er, uh, aspiring young astronomers.

I submit to you that if you spent less time with the "White man keeping me down" attitude and quit posting "Psychopathic white cop kills totally innocent 2 year old black kid" clips from the National Enquier, and spent more time making something of yourself, you'd find your life might go just a little bit smoother.

[OURYEAR#56]

In CT mthe cops that police my area do not represent thepeople that live in that community. In my area policing is re-actionary and not preventive. However they make it a pointto make their presence known, and its through bully tactics. JBOO I know that most the police officers in DC are minorities, however that is not stopping DC from having the highest murder rate per capita in the United States. It's not about balckand white,it's about the community being accountable for the atmosphere in that region, urban or suburban. When I said that this was a good case for community policing what I meant it. The concept of having armed officers that stay on the premisses to stop the bull sh*t is a good idea. However those police officers should represent the people there. They should not come from suburbia, because they are bringing foriegnb concepts about the people that they may act on....case in point. I like the concept of police officers being present on, but I don't want them to appera as over seers, or slave drivers. That's it. Let the authority looklike it has the best intentions for the people it suppose to protect and maybe we can put an end to the hypocracy. By the way not to be an ***** Katz, but a burglary is a robbery of an intrusion into the home that has already accured. Your friend was getting robbed at the time.

[redman]

OY, community policing doesn't eliminate the fact that police carry weapons, are responsible for the protection of innocent lives (including their own), and must make judgment calls on the spot regarding use of force often within fractions of seconds. Sometimes those judgments are going to be shown after the fact to be wrong, as in the case of kids with plastic guns or dark wallets in half-lighted stairwells, etc.

What almost always seems to be the case in those instances, however, is the lack of cooperation by the suspects with the police even after the police have identified themselves. Sorry, but that's unacceptable.

Originally posted by OURYEAR#56
By the way not to be an ***** Katz, but a burglary is a robbery of an intrusion into the home that has already accured. Your friend was getting robbed at the time.

I'm not sure what you're first sentence means, but burglary (traditionally) is breaking into an unoccupied dwelling at night; robbery is an assault on one's person to steal property.

It's not clear from katz's description whether his friend was home or not.

[Om]

Originally posted by OURYEAR#56
No JBOO I won't have anything positive to say about thepoliceon this site. I post this articlein protest to the Liberal bashing that goes on everyday on this site. OM said that all I do is post negative things about race, I'm just following the crowd. So everytime that you see one of these post it will be to shed a light on the racial problem in America. I'm mad. I get a public lynching by OM, and Kilmer can post bullsh*t about democrats, and liberals all day. Isn't that preferential treatment.

That you cannot understand the difference between some of the blatantly baiting political nonsense posted around here, and the blatantly baiting racial stuff you’ve been posting here for the last year or so, is a reflection on no one but you.

That you have continued to be allowed to pursue your at best quixotic – and at worst racist – quest is a testament to the patience and forebearance of the people who grant you the forum in which to spout your particular brand of bilge in the first place.

That so many of your fellow members have taken the time, on this and each of your other numerous such fishing expeditions, to respond to said bilge, and have torn each and every installment of it to utter shreds, is a testament to the intelligence of said members.

That you are apparently too simple or too obtuse to have understood that, and further, that you are utterly unable to grasp how misguided, uninformed, and utterly lacking in the thought or language skills necessary to seriously discuss sensitive issues like the racial divide, with anything even remotely resembling maturity or open-mindedness, has been long established.

Only you – and perhaps some of our newer members who haven’t been around long enough to catch your tired act – have not caught on to these facts yet.

And they may not get the chance. Last time we went through this, I told you it had to stop. Up until today, I thought you had understood.

No more next times.

If you really want to commit message board suicide my mod today, go ahead and respond the way I think you will.