Smoot fix - The Skins will work out a sign-and-trade deal agreeable to Fred Smoot

[inmate running the asylum]

I was just thinking and that's dangerous. We keep reading that Fred Smoot more then likely is going to leave, in that the Skins have offered him a max SB of $11 million. Well I wouldn't offer him more then that, but I do believe Smoot can get more then that on the open market, because there is always out there one team that is willing to overpay.

But I wonder if the Skins couldn't work out a sign-and-trade deal behind the scenes, before free agency opens. Kind of like we did with Brunel last year. The parameters of the deal were worked out BEFORE free agency opened (draft compensation, SB, etc) and then the first day of free agency the trade was allowed.

Now what I'm thinking about is NOT Franchise Tagging or Transition tagging Smoot -- which the Skins don't have the cap room to do -- at least until they restructure Samuels contract -- but simply reaching an agreement with Smoot and his agent; and another team that wants to acquire him; and is willing to give us say a 1st or 2nd round draft pick or a quality player in return. Something that's agreeable and makes all parties involved happy.

Why would this work?
1. First of all Smoot would get the SB and long-term contract he wants.
2. Second, we would get some compensation in return -- a 1st or 2nd round draft pick or even a quality player, instead of letting a quality player walk for nothing.
3. Third, the team that acquires Smoot would get a player they want, WITHOUT having to get into a bidding war when free agency opens, which guarantees that they get him at a price they like.

The Redskins cannot trade Smoot at the moment, because he is a UFA. But they can trade him if he agrees to this and signs a Redskins contract -- and then they trade his contract to another team the next day.

So why wouldn't Smoot say no and just wait for free agency to open? He could of course. But the Skins could bluff and hint that they would Franchise Tag him, which would prevent him from getting a BIG PAYDAY, SIGNING BONUS & LONG-TERM CONTRACT. Kind of like what occurred last year with Chris McAllister, Charles Woodson, Walter Jones and Walter Pace. The risk to the player is that what if he gets seriously injured and his career is over, he will never see his big payday.

Now the Redskins would not REALLY want to go through with this and tie up $6 million or more in cap space, but they could still use it as leverage in bargaining with him.

And who would be interested in Smoot? A lot of teams interested in improving their defense..... like Kansas City, Minnesota and Oakland for starters. So how about the possibility of getting Smoot to sign a deal and trading him to Oakland for Phillip Buchanan straight up or for a 2nd round draft pick? Now I know a lot you guys are going to say Buchanan can't hold Smoot's jockstrap and that is true so far. But Buchanan is still young and has a lot of promise and is a hell of a punt returner.

And more importantly -- the Skins get something in return for Smoot without letting him walk for nothing. Plus Buchanan is another one of those Miami guys. You know, the ones who know how to play football. And we need to collect as many of those guys as we can.

Why would the Raiders do this? Because Buchanan has publicly stated he wants out of Oakland and rumor has it that the Raiders are tired of dealing with the Postons and not going to re-sign Woodson. The extra $5 million in signing bonus the Skins save, is then used to re-sign Antonio Pierce.

O.k., guys fire away. But remember where you read this prediction. Cuz Om has stated in the past, that I shouldn't have to crawl back to gloat.

[jtyler42]

Actually this makes perfect sense, after all it is the only way we can trade Smoot...We definately cannot let him leave for nothing, that would be a bad move...

[seanskins]

I never considered the possible sign and trade scenario, but I have thought about Buchanon. I just always associated this deal with a franchise tag and trade deal with the raiders. It is a logical scenario for us fans, but realistically I do not see this happening, there are to many things that must go our way. The big "if" is the teams with lots of cap room. Why would those teams trade a player or pick if they are fully capable of entering a bidding war and possibly winning? That is really the only argument I can think of that will hold water against your theory. A team thats lets say 14-18 mill under the cap may just want Smoot bad enough that are willing to grossly overpay for his services.

[inmate running the asylum]

Originally posted by seanskins
I never considered the possible sign and trade scenario, but I have thought about Buchanon. I just always associated this deal with a franchise tag and trade deal with the raiders. It is a logical scenario for us fans, but realistically I do not see this happening, there are to many things that must go our way. The big "if" is the teams with lots of cap room. Why would those teams trade a player or pick if they are fully capable of entering a bidding war and possibly winning? That is really the only argument I can think of that will hold water against your theory. A team thats lets say 14-18 mill under the cap may just want Smoot bad enough that are willing to grossly overpay for his services.

The point you raise is possible of course, and Smoot himself could gamble and call the Redskins bluff and nix the deal.

But it would make sense to any team behind the scenes to work out a SB deal for say a fixed amount like $12 million -- rather getting into a bidding war and later having to pay Smoot $14 million to get him.

And of course there are risks for the Redskins in Franchise Tagging Smoot, which I don't believe they want to do, especially with Walt Harris waiting to take over.

[Mister Happy]

Why do you think Smoot has been offered $11 million?

All we know is the Skins offered to make him a top 10 paid cornerback, and maybe Fred wanted $4 million more than what they were offering.

Earlier you showed numbers that Top 10 for CBs meant $5+ million.

If the Skins had offered $11 million, they would not have said Top 10. They would have said Top 5 or maybe even Top 3.

My guess is that the Skins offered $6 million and Smoot asked for $10 million (like Springs got.)

Frankly, I'm not even that sure about the $4 million difference figure that "sources" gave to the Washington Post.

[seanskins]

Originally posted by inmate running the asylum


The point you raise is possible of course, and Smoot himself could gamble and call the Redskins bluff and nix the deal.

But it would make sense to any team behind the scenes to work out a SB deal for say a fixed amount like $12 million -- rather getting into a bidding war and later having to pay Smoot $14 million to get him.

And of course there are risks for the Redskins in Franchise Tagging Smoot, which I don't believe they want to do, especially with Walt Harris waiting to take over.

The SB deal is good for Smoot and the skins, but not the other team. Roughly a 2 million dollar variation in the free agent market? Is that worth losing a player or pick of Smoots caliber? Seems like adding insullt to injury to me. Not only will they have to fork over 12 mill guaranteed money, they also lose a valuable player/pick.

[inmate running the asylum]

Originally posted by Mister Happy
Why do you think Smoot has been offered $11 million?

All we know is the Skins offered to make him a top 10 paid cornerback, and maybe Fred wanted $4 million more than what they were offering.

Earlier you showed numbers that Top 10 for CBs meant $5+ million.

If the Skins had offered $11 million, they would not have said Top 10. They would have said Top 5 or maybe even Top 3.

My guess is that the Skins offered $6 million and Smoot asked for $10 million (like Springs got.)

Frankly, I'm not even that sure about the $4 million difference figure that "sources" gave to the Washington Post.

To answer your questions, I have read in the WP or WT several times that the Skins offered Smoot a $10.3 and then $11.0 million SB. The same papers said that rumors had it that he was asking for a $14 million SB initially. All we as fans know is what the media leaks to us. So sure you could be right about the offer to Smoot. Maybe they did lowball him. But I doubt it.

The info I maintain on my harddrive is taken mainly from media sources and is fairly accurate, but I don't maintain its perfect. For example I dont know exactly what Dallas paid CB Terrence Newman, but with a roster bonus thrown in, I'm sure it was over $10 million guaranteed when he signed as a rookie. He's not even on my list yet, and some others may be left off as well.

Here is my list again which I don't claim is complete. I've only started maintaining these lists the past year or so.

Champ Bailey (2004)--- 18.0 SB + $ 5M RB - 7 yrs @ $ 63 million -
$ 27 M guaranteed in first 3 years
Ty Law (1999) --- $ 14.2 SB - 7 yrs @ $ 51 million
Ahmed Plummer (2004) --- $ 11.0 SB - 5 yrs @ ?
Antione Winfield (2004) --- $ 10.8 SB - 6 yrs @ $ 34.8 million
Shawn Springs (2004) --- $ 10.0 SB - 6 yrs @ $ 30 million
Will Peterson (2003) -- $ 10.0 TB - 5M SB & 5M RB (03) 5 yrs @
$28.5 million
Lito Sheppard (2004) -- $ 9.0 SB - 5 yr. ext @ $ 25 million
Sheldon Brown (2004) -- $ 7.5 SB - 6 yr. ext @ $ ?
Jason Webster (2004) --- $ 7.0 SB - 6 yrs @ $ 18 million
Dre’ Bly (2003) -- $ 6.5 SB - 5 yrs @ $ 24.5 million
Fred Thomas (2004) --- $ 5.0 SB - 4 yrs @ $ 14 million
Sam Madison (2004) --- $ 4.7 SB - Renegotiated 4 yrs @ $ 18 million

[bubba9497]

[inmate running the asylum]

Originally posted by seanskins

The SB deal is good for Smoot and the skins, but not the other team. Roughly a 2 million dollar variation in the free agent market? Is that worth losing a player or pick of Smoots caliber? Seems like adding insullt to injury to me. Not only will they have to fork over 12 mill guaranteed money, they also lose a valuable player/pick.

To answer your question, there are a lot of ways a team can work a contract that's more favorable to the team, PROVIDED the player is willing. And the player still gets the same amount of money. Such as by making part of the contract made up of roster bonuses, instead of a signing bonus.

To answer your specific question above, why didn't the Skins wait until Mark Brunell was released last year in free agency, when everyone knew the Jags were going to release him? Conventional wisdom says the Skins could have saved giving up the 3rd round draft pick.

In spite of this the Skins gave up the high draft pick and agreed behind the scenes to give Brunell an $8.3 million SB. Why? Evidently they wanted to guarantee they got Brunell and didn't want to get into a bidding war. Until the Jags allowed Gibbs to meet with Brunell -- which no other team was permitted to do -- Brunell had publicly stated he wanted to play for Miami, which also wanted his services. But the Jags had leverage -- or are good at bluffing in poker -- and did not allow Miami or anyone to meet with Brunell or his agent, because the Skins met their behind the scenes, pre-conditions.

Could I be wrong about this scenario I've forecast. Yeah. But somehow I just don't see Snyder and Gibbs letting a quality player walk away for nothing, without getting something in return.

[inmate running the asylum]

Below, someone else posted this on another thread, whereby Nunyo reportedly said this on SportsTalk 980. I think that more then likely it involves Smoot, rather someone else. Trading Gardener wouldn't be a blockbuster deal to me, unless a lot of players and draft choices were involved.



SportsTalk 980: Quote:
He [Nunyo] also said that the Skinz are already working on what he considers a blockbuster deal, but would not discuss details.

[Chrisbob74]

Originally posted by inmate running the asylum

Why would this work?
1. First of all Smoot would get the SB and long-term contract he wants.
2. Second, we would get some compensation in return -- a 1st or 2nd round draft pick or even a quality player, instead of letting a quality player walk for nothing.
3. Third, the team that acquires Smoot would get a player they want, WITHOUT having to get into a bidding war when free agency opens, which guarantees that they get him at a price they like.

A lot of reasons I don't think it will work:

1, A team will just target someone else like Seattles Ken Lucas or Baltimores Gary Baxter if it was clear that the 'Skins and Smoot were prepared to go down this route.

2, I've never ever seen it happen before, franchise tag and trades yes, but unrestricted sign and trade........no.

3, I think Smoots in for a disappointment when he gets on the open market, we're not the only team that won't pay a $14M signing bonus and he may not find any type of bidding war. he may get the money off one team, but I doubt he will have a queue of suitors with demands like this. He pretty much wants to become the 2nd or highest paid corner in the league..........ain't happening Fred, sorry.

I just can't see a team coughing up a draft pick for a guy they know will be an unrestricted free agent. I know we did it with Brunell in effect but he was waiting to be released and it was clear there would be suitors for him. I don't see Smoot getting the attention he thinks he should get at the price he is asking.

[inmate running the asylum]

Originally posted by Chrisbob74


A lot of reasons I don't think it will work:

1, A team will just target someone else like Seattles Ken Lucas or Baltimores Gary Baxter if it was clear that the 'Skins and Smoot were prepared to go down this route.

2, I've never ever seen it happen before, franchise tag and trades yes, but unrestricted sign and trade........no.

3, I think Smoots in for a disappointment when he gets on the open market, we're not the only team that won't pay a $14M signing bonus and he may not find any type of bidding war. he may get the money off one team, but I doubt he will have a queue of suitors with demands like this. He pretty much wants to become the 2nd or highest paid corner in the league..........ain't happening Fred, sorry.

I just can't see a team coughing up a draft pick for a guy they know will be an unrestricted free agent. I know we did it with Brunell in effect but he was waiting to be released and it was clear there would be suitors for him. I don't see Smoot getting the attention he thinks he should get at the price he is asking.

Hey Chrisbob? You had your kippers yet?

You could be right of course. But I got a gut feeling the Skins are not going to let Smoot walk and get nothing in return.

[Chrisbob74]

Originally posted by inmate running the asylum


Hey Chrisbob? You had your kippers yet?

You could be right of course. But I got a gut feeling the Skins are not going to let Smoot walk and get nothing in return.

The Kippers are smoking right now. I told them it's bad for their health but they won't listen. (It must be 6am there or something, do you ever sleep inmate?)

If it happens, it's a franchise tag and trade to someone like San Diego who have two first rounders and the coach who drafted him and started him as a rookie. Problem is the franchise tag for a corner this year is $10.5M so if they go down this road san Diego has to be prepared to pay and the 'Skins have to be prepared to take the risk. As long as he is traded on the deadline, we don't need to free up the cap room.

I still think that's unlikely, I expect the transistion tag to go on Smoot and the 'Skins to allow him to test the free agent market, if Smoot gets what he wants ($14M Signing Bonus) they won't match............if he doesn't get what he wants, he may, just may, come running back.........

Time will tell.

[andyman]

Fred was offered at least a $10.3 million signing bonus, that is undisputed. Greg Blache summed it up best in today's Post:

"If Fred's here or not here, that's a decision Fred made, not people here," said defensive coordinator Greg Blache. "We'd love to have Fred back, but if he's not back we're going to line up a defense and we're going to compete."

[bubba9497]

I remember reading an article about why teams can't do "sign and trades" like in the NBA. had something to do with the cap somehow... but can't remember exactly how.