If a pregnant mother is beaten and loses her child, is it a murder?

[portisizzle]

Originally posted by Liberty


It is about the mother having control of her own body.

It is not the body of the woman I am worried about.

[skinsfan51]

Originally posted by Liberty


It is about the mother having control of her own body.

Ok, but if you read my post before this one, it's illogical to look at the "fetus" as not being a baby. Calling it a fetus only makes it impersonal. No one wants to tell a woman that she can abort her baby. That's a hard pill for the conscience to swallow (and rightly so).

So with that determined, the question now has to be asked, is it ok for a woman to take the life of her unborn child because it resides in her body?

For those of you that would still want to argue that it's not a baby, let me as you: if it were a baby in your eyes, would you then change your position and say the mother doesn't have the right to take his/her life, or would you still say "it's her body, her decision"?

[Prosperity]

Well I don't know when life starts, and until I am sure i will lean towards giving the woman freedom over herself. You may have a point with very late term abortions though.

[skinsfan51]

Originally posted by Liberty
Well I don't know when life starts, and until I am sure i will lean towards giving the woman freedom over herself. You may have a point with very late term abortions though.

When my wife was pregnant for our third child she got a viral infection that caused her uterus to rupture. The doctors put her on bedrest at the hospital for eight weeks. She was at 27 weeks when that happened and they told her that the baby could be born and survive at that age. It would need some TLC, but it would most likely make it. I say that to bring up the point that there she was, 27 weeks along and my daughter could have lived right then. I don't know how anyone can say it's not a baby.

I apologize if my signature pic is a bit too much for some of you, but it's a beautiful picture. It's authentic and came out a couple of years ago. I don't remember the details. I think the doctor was performing a c-section and the baby just put his hand out and wrapped it around the doctor's finger. It was very, very, very early in the pregnancy. Early enough that it was termed a "fetus." My question is, does a "fetus" do that, or does a baby do that? It's pretty moving...



I've removed the attachment. It's a bit much. Sorry.

Art

[Stu]

Originally posted by skinsfan51 It's authentic and came out a couple of years ago. I don't remember the details. I think the doctor was performing a c-section and the baby just put his hand out and wrapped it around the doctor's finger. It was very, very, very early in the pregnancy. Early enough that it was termed a "fetus." My question is, does a "fetus" do that, or does a baby do that? It's pretty moving...

I believe the doctor was operating on the child's spine in utero to repair a birth defect. The mother was stitched back up and the baby then went to term and was delivered healthy.

[skinsfan51]

Originally posted by Stu


I believe the doctor was operating on the child's spine in utero to repair a birth defect. The mother was stitched back up and the baby then went to term and was delivered healthy.

Thanks for the clarification, Stu. It looks too young to be a c-section. It is an amazing, and revealing, picture. I have six children and it almost makes me cry to look at it. They are precious.

[Maxito]

I voted Yes. The reason I voted yes, because in my opinion the baby is still a human, even though it hasn't came out of the women body. And if the mother is killed the suspect should be charged for double murder.

[Waldo da Magnificent]

There is not a single state that allows abortions in the 39th week .

I've checked a dozen states, and the limit seems to be 14 weeks for a voluntary abortion, and 26 weeks for health risks to the mother.

No one can have a legal voluntary abortion one week before the due date.

*edit* just spoke to my brother and his wife, both doctors, who stated no one can legally get an abortion in the US during the 39th week. Even if the health of the mother is at stake, the baby would be C-sectioned and steps taken from there.

Originally posted by skinsfan51


Wise option if you really don't know.

Here is something to consider for everyone.

Let's say a woman is in the 39th week of her pregnancy (one week before the due date), ok? Let's say that something traumatic happens in her life and she considers the following two legal options.

1. She can have an abortion.

2. She can deliver the baby by c-section (at that point the baby is fully formed and can live very easily)

According to the law, if she chooses option #1 she's only aborting a "fetus." Pro-"Choice" groups stand behind her right to "choose."

If she chooses option #2 she's delivers a "baby." Her family rallies around her and welcomes the new life into the world.

At what point did "it" go from fetus to baby? After birth? So breathing determines life? So 15 seconds before it is taken from her womb it's not alive? Consider how difficult it is to retain the non-personal label "fetus" in light of this very realistic situation.

It's a baby. Always has been; always will be.


"I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made." -King David

[sonsofwashington]

nm

[Thiebear]

Originally posted by Thiebear
Without getting all religious like.

I helped make the baby. I am now the single dad raising the babies. I like my job..

Why can't I as 50% of the contributing factor have 26% of the say in if the baby stays alive: I keep the baby and you owe me nothing... walk away and have just as much to do with "it" as if
'you' were never there....

why is that such a hard thing to determine judiciusly...

Liberty:
It is about the mother having control of her own body.

Yes? And she didn't have control of her own body when she went through the process of sex to make the baby?

Ohhh? Your saying after she makes the choice to have a baby?
Because at that point the Courts are giving the women the right to fix said 1st choice without the other participants input in the 2nd choice.
(Court ruling were not responsible for our actions?)

I hope someone with enough money takes that fight to the Supreme Court.. (or did they already and lose)?

[Prosperity]

I don't think you have a point Thiebear.

[twa]

Originally posted by Liberty
Well I don't know when life starts, and until I am sure i will lean towards giving the woman freedom over herself. You may have a point with very late term abortions though.

you have shown a open mind about this, I think you will agree that women or girls considering a abortion should get all the info they can before making such a choice. IMO they are being lied to by the abortion supporters. The fact that it has turned into a profitable business is another interesting thing to look at.. There is a interesting article @ worldnet daily from one of the founders of the push to legalise abortion.......I would provide a link,but I don't know how

[Thiebear]

Liberty:
I don't think you have a point Thiebear.

You dont.. i do...

Point being you keep talking about a womens choice yet you fail to realize it was the womans choice in the 1st place.

There are some cases where it was not.. that is understandable.

But in the cases where there is a responsible father i find it a horrible option not to include them.

You do realize once said baby takes that 1st breath of air and is now considered a human being in your mind "Father" again has lost all rights and now will pay no matter what...

Hmmmmm, seems like there are only rights on one side here...

So there are people that think its ok for the Mother to Kill the baby, but its not o.k. for the father to not support the baby..
ahahahahhahahahahahaha thats a tough one to wrap yourself around...

[Prosperity]

The choice to have sex is not the same as the choice to give birth to a baby.

[fuji869]

IHMO: it is murder but unless abortion is illegal there should be no murder charges brought up.

I am sorry but I just believe that you should decide whether a unborn child is a life or not when it is convenient.