Hall of Fame: Michael Irvin vs. Art Monk

[themurf]

Just got back from my honeymoon and I wanted to share a link with everyone for an article breaking down the comparison between Pro Football Hall of Fame candidates Michael Irvin and Art Monk.

Here's the link:
http://www.hobotrashcan.com/notetoself/

Take care,

murf.

[SonnyRules]

The true playmaker



By Brian Murphy

Let me say this up front – former Dallas Cowboy Wide receiver Michael Irvin should not be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
I know what you’re thinking – “hey moron, he’s one of 25 semifinalists for selection to the Hall of Fame in 2006.” And you’re right – I am a moron, and Irvin did make the initial cut. I’m just here to tell you he shouldn’t make reservations for Canton just yet.

Don’t get me wrong, Irvin was an above-average player for a Dallas team that won multiple Super Bowls. When teams had to face an offense that featured quarterback Troy Aikman, running back Emmitt Smith and Irvin, they knew they’d be in for a long day. And a look at Irvin’s numbers proves that, more often than not, he got the job done.

In 159 games, the man they call “The Playmaker” had 750 catches for 11,904 yards and 65 touchdowns. He holds Cowboys records for receptions, receiving yards and 100-yard games (47). But as I said before, Irvin isn’t Hall of Fame caliber. Why?

Meet former Washington Redskins wide receiver Art Monk, who is also a semifinalist for the Class of 2006. In 224 games played, Monk hauled in 940 catches for 12,721 yards and 68 touchdowns. If you only focus on his time with the Redskins (from 1980 to 1993), Monk had 888 catches for 12,026 yards and 65 touchdowns.

The Hall of Fame should be a place for the best to ever play the game, and Monk is more deserving than Irvin. In the history of the NFL, Monk ranks fifth in receptions, ninth in receiving yards, 29th (tied) in receiving touchdowns and 26th in yards from scrimmage. In those same categories, Irvin ranks tied for 17th, 14th, tied for 34th, and 35th.

It’s also important to point out, that when Art Monk retired, he held the record for NFL receptions in a season and in a career. Jerry Rice has since broke both records, but when he walked away from the game, Monk was the best in the history of his position in two different categories – something Irvin cannot claim. And bringing up all those Super Bowls Irvin and friends won doesn’t matter, because both players played on three Super Bowl winning teams.

When comparing Irvin and Monk, it’s the little things like that the voters need to remember. So by looking at the numbers, it’s easy to see that Monk should be the first to earn Hall of Fame honors. And we’re only comparing these two athletes on the field.

The day after Thanksgiving is known as Black Friday because of all the crazed holiday shoppers getting into shoving matches in Wal-mart over a computer sale or something as equally ridiculous. But Nov. 25, served as a “Black Friday” for Irvin for a completely different reason - he was arrested in Plano, Texas on an outstanding warrant for speeding.

With Irvin in custody, police officers began to search his vehicle. That’s when they discovered a marijuana pipe and a baggy with pot residue sitting underneath Irvin’s driver seat. Irvin says it’s not his – that they belong to (depending on which version of his story you heard) either his brother or a friend who recently checked into rehab.

Cowboy fans can smell where this is going. You see, back in March of 1996, Irvin was arrested on charges of cocaine possession at a hotel party celebrating his 30th birthday. He pleaded no contest to felony cocaine possession in exchange for four years of deferred probation, a $10,000 fine and dismissal of misdemeanor marijuana possession charges. In fact, the NFL suspended Irvin for the first five games of the 1996 season because of his memorable birthday bash.

A year following his NFL retirement, Irvin again was arrested on … surprise, surprise … drug possession charges. In this case, Irvin was in a Dallas apartment with an unrelated female. Neither answered the door when police drug task force agents arrived with a search warrant. Police entered the apartment forcibly, finding drugs. Irvin and the female were placed under arrest, though Irvin, for unknown reasons, was never charged.

But that’s not all folks – Irvin was also known for his role in the “White House,” a building owned by several members of the Dallas Cowboys for the purpose of cocaine use, and illicit sex with prostitutes, strippers, and underage women. To borrow a line from the Hair Club for Men, not only was Irvin the “president,” but he was also a client. Sounds like someone we should all rush to lift up, right?

The bottom line is this – on the field Art Monk was a better player. Off the field, Monk is a much better person. When the panelists sit down to decide which wide receiver should be enshrined into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, the choice should be easy. Let’s just hope they make the right call.

Brian Murphy dreams of a day when Art Monk and Pete Rose are both in their respective Halls of Fame – since they were, you know, two of the best to ever play their respective sports. Contact him at murf@the5holes.com.

[36HAMMER]

Monk hands down, no comparison on or off the field.capt pushoff wouldn't have done as much had the refs called him the way they are supposed to.

[Henry]

Some more light reading on the subject:

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/s...ght=irvin+monk

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/s...ght=irvin+monk

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/s...ght=irvin+monk

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/s...ght=irvin+monk

[kingdaddy]

I thought I saw where Gary Clark has numbers similar to Michael Irvin's. Somebody on this site posted them. Does that mean that Clark should be in?

[Ax]

The biggest problem here is common sense. If it were applied in the case of Art Monk, he would have been the first ballot lock he deserved to be. That he continues to be ignored only proves that common sense has nothing to do with the HOF voters. They are a joke.

[Tubfart]

Well, this is just from an outsiders perspective, but Irvin was a bigger impact player and had comparable stats in fewer games, and Way more TDs. He also had big game moments in Super Bowls (Monk did next to nothing in the big game).

Now, Monk accumulated some nice stats over time, but never was the impact player. Never dominated at his position. Hell, he wasn't even the most feared WR on his team. Should Monk get in? Eh, I don't think its a crime if he doesn't. I certainly won't lose sleep one way or the other. But Irvin should be a shoe in though.

Again, this is an outsiders persepctive, one that is not clouded with bias of pro or anti skins. Alot of people I know, also neutral with regards to the skins, say the exact same thing. They say "Irvin should be in, and Monk...what did he do again?"

Sorry, I know you don't like to hear this. But I think you'll find that's the way it is with most people who don't perscribe to burgundy and gold sunglasses.

[indatrenches]

So i guess you have to be a loud mouth me me me big time playmaker, touchdown dancing bafoon to be elected to the hall of fame?


Boy i sure hope this doesnt happen to Marvin Harrison and Issac Bruce 10-15 years down the road when they and Owens, R.Moss, C.Johnson, S.Smith are elected for the Hall of Fame.

[Tubfart]

Originally Posted by indatrenches

So i guess you have to be a loud mouth me me me big time playmaker, touchdown dancing bafoon to be elected to the hall of fame?

No, but you need to be a dominate, feared player at your position for more than a couple of years though. Irvin was, Monk wasn't. Simplicity is key.

[zoony]

Originally Posted by Tubfart

No, but you need to be a dominate, feared player at your position for more than a couple of years though. Irvin was, Monk wasn't. Simplicity is key.

Think about what you are saying.

Monk was able to pile on those statistics in spite of being one of several offensive threats on many teams.

Do you honestly think Irvin would have compiled those same numbers playing along side Clark, Sanders, Brown, etc?

I'll be interested to see how you talk your way out of this one.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

My problem with Monk is that I never thought he was even the best receiver on the team.

Granted, I think Monk should be in the Hall of Fame, but even with the gaudy numbers of receptions, I've never considered him a lock.

I don't know why we argue about Monk when Grimm and Jacoby should be in the Hall of Fame. The two most dominant members of the most famous/greatest O-line of all time.

[Tubfart]

Originally Posted by zoony

Think about what you are saying.

Monk was able to pile on those statistics in spite of being one of several offensive threats on many teams.

Do you honestly think Irvin would have compiled those same numbers playing along side Clark, Sanders, Brown, etc?

I'll be interested to see how you talk your way out of this one.

Monk piled on those stats because he played nearly two full decades. What would Irvin had done if he had threatening receivers like Clark and Sanders to shade away coverage? Man that would be scary.

Irvin's numbers are more remarkable in that he did not pad his stats in by deferring his retirement, and that he never had a true threat opposite to him. Hence, he built his numbers and TDs almost always against double coverage. See what happens when a lesser receiver does not have a true opposite threat to ward away coverage?...his numbers fade sharply (Moss anyone?) That never happened with Irvin. Thats why he special and I think is better than Monk.

[stupidsuck]

everyone forgets that if you are not loud and in the news all the time you're not a star apparently. You also have to remind everyone how great you were every week too.

[chrisavery72]

Monk in the HOF....period. Irvin will get in soon enough, but Monk should be in before him.

[Tubfart]

Originally Posted by stupidsuck

everyone forgets that if you are not loud and in the news all the time you're not a star apparently. You also have to remind everyone how great you were every week too.

I addressed this already. Being flamboyant has nothing to do with getting in (though admittedly alot who are probably will; i mean think about it, would a player who does not at least show the potential of a future HOFer ever have reason to get on with that "look at me, I'm a superstar" schtick?)

Irvin is not better than Monk and will not get into the Hall because he is loud, wears fancy clothes or get arrested for being a "wild man". It's becuase of his performance as previously discussed in this thread.

Likewise, if Monk was as show boating as Irvin or Deion or TO, it wouldn't matter to his HOF credentials.